padi self reliant diver

[Diver0001]

Yup, lots of money being made by PADI.

What does PADI get out of it? The one-time fee an Instructor pays to PADI to teach the distinctive specialty...it's less than $100 CDN. PIC card...based on our volume, we pay about $20 CDN for a PIC. That's what PADI gets.

There is no manual for the student to buy. Heck, there is not even a charge to the Instructor for their Self-Reliant Diver Instructor Manual, it's a download.

Yup, it must have been done as a money grab.

Bill, PADI is a business like any other. They want to keep the money moving. There is nothing shameful about this nor anything wrong with admitting it. I know a lot of divers think that making money is bad but it's not. It allows for a certain amount of R&D but more importantly it allows for keeping the materials (books etc.) that new divers depend on, up to date with respect to the newest trends and research.

Moaning about PADI actually making money from their business is completely irrational, if you ask me. The important question is what they will do with that money to improve their performance.

We don't accuse banks who pay their top managers a bonus equal to the annual salary of 4 billion people of deliberately wanting people to die....even though their policies lead to wide spread poverty and wide spread fraud.... I'm just saying. How evil can PADI really be when sincerely evil money grabs are an every day event.

R..

 

[Hawkwood]

Geezus Rob, did I word my post that poorly? Was my attempt at pointed sarcasm so completely lost?

A number of folks have posted in this Thread that the Self-Relient course was a money grab by PADI.

I tried to point out that:

1. PADI charges the Instructor less than $100 CDN the one-time fee to become a Self-Reliant Diver Specialty Instructor;

2. PADI charges as little as $20 CDN for the PIC form for a student to be "certified"; and,

3. PADI does not produce or sell a manual for that course.

So, HOW THE HECK CAN THIS BE A MONEY GRAB????

It's a "distinctive specialty" - PADI didn't even develop it. It was developed by an Instructor and "approved" by PADI.

 

[Wookie]

I view solo like I view sidemount or rebreather or deep penetration dives, none of which I participate in (except solo) and are sketchy in my opinion. Folks are going to do it anyway. They are going to do it safely or not. Those of us who have done tens or hundreds or more of this type of dive safely have got something figured out, so those types of dives CAN be done safely, there is a method to doing them safely, and that method can be taught to others so that they may do them safely.

The potential for 'not knowing what you don't know' for those types of dives is very high.

 

[Colliam7]

So, HOW THE HECK CAN THIS BE A MONEY GRAB????

Actually I thought Rob was more or less agreeing with that point - by stating that what PADI does is not in any way a money grab, by any reasonable comparison with what are truly money grabs - not disputing it. But, maybe I misunderstood his post.

 

[maniago]

Bill, PADI is a business like any other. They want to keep the money moving. There is nothing shameful about this nor anything wrong with admitting it.

R..

While I'd personally agree with you wrt a business, in general people want to feel that they are getting their money's worth when they pay for something. When its perceived that you are paying only for paperwork and the price is exorbitant, then its a money grab.

I'm not saying that that is what PADI is doing here because I'll not be taking this course to find out (for reasons mentioned before). But they do have that reputation, and reputations exist because enough people perceive it so.

Similarly, I tell my kids, the only thing you truly own and have influence over in life is your reputation. And you only get one shot at making it what you want. Don't screw it up.

 

[doctormike]

But they do have that reputation, and reputations exist because enough people perceive it so.

Sometimes, reputations exist because people keep posting the conventional wisdom in Internet forums!

 

[boulderjohn]

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While I'd personally agree with you wrt a business, in general people want to feel that they are getting their money's worth when they pay for something. When its perceived that you are paying only for paperwork and the price is exorbitant, then its a money grab.

I'm not saying that that is what PADI is doing here because I'll not be taking this course to find out (for reasons mentioned before). But they do have that reputation, and reputations exist because enough people perceive it so.

Similarly, I tell my kids, the only thing you truly own and have influence over in life is your reputation. And you only get one shot at making it what you want. Don't screw it up.

Sometimes, reputations exist because people keep posting the conventional wisdom in Internet forums!

Yes, Mike, people keep repeating the same nonsense so many times that it takes hold.

For the umpteenth time, a company that is not charging for its services is not grabbing money! If the individual instructor is charging too much and diving too little, it is the fault of that individual instructor. He or she is the one charging and getting the money. He or she is the one giving the services.

I teach three distinctive specialties. In some cases, students don't bother with the attached certification card because all they are interested in is the instruction. When that happens, PADI does not even get the handling fee for the certification card. They don't, in fact, even know the student took the course. They don't get a single dime. They don't get a penny. (How else can I say it?)

But their reputation still suffers because people on places like ScubaBoard keep saying it is just another PADI money grab.

 

[DaleC]

I just see the dive industry as a hungry dog trying to eat its own tail; based on the delusion that if it chews hard enough, long enough, it'll turn into a steak.

Dive education really isn't supposed to be big business. It is just an outdoor pursuit, or a pastime if one prefers, like canoeing or wilderness hiking. There's a threshold for most such activities regarding how much revenue can be generated however in diving there is an industry that has managed to monetize every aspect of the experience to justify its own existence. Many spend more time obsessing about gear and training than actually diving and if you are not continuously taking courses to improve yourself you are committing some form of safety sin. You can't try anything new unless you take formal education for it according to some. It's madness supported by the people who pander to it.

I'm kinda glad that I live where I live and diving is still possible without someone owning the access and environment so I can ignore the craziness and just dive.

If the self reliant diver is not meant to be a solo course and just meant to create better buddy divers.. why aren't all divers taught that out of hand. Is PADI admitting it creates dependent divers via it's basic training?

 

[doctormike]

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But their reputation still suffers because people on places like ScubaBoard keep saying it is just another PADI money grab.

Yup! But hey, without all that "reputation", how would we be able to make jokes like the one about the NAUI instructor, the GUE instructor and the PADI instructor on the sinking dive boat...?

Seriously, I see why agency bashing is against the TOS here. And I really find it odd to see how pervasive this "conventional wisdom" is.

A buddy of mine - excellent diver but only started diving last year - was considering tech training, and had ruled out PADI because of it's reputation as not being a serious tech agency like TDI. This is based on nothing, it's not like this person had taken the PADI tech course (I'm taking it now), or had taught for multiple agencies. It's just one of those things that "everybody knows" so it becomes fact. One of the best instructors I have ever met teaches PADI tech, and I would trust him without question. So it's a bit odd for a new diver to be slagging on an agency based on nothing much at all...

---------- Post added April 7th, 2014 at 11:12 AM ----------

in diving there is an industry that has managed to monetize every aspect of the experience to justify its own existence. Many spend more time obsessing about gear and training than actually diving and if you are not continuously taking courses to improve yourself you are committing some form of safety sin. You can't try anything new unless you take formal education for it according to some. It's madness supported by the people who pander to it.

I think that this is a sort of a straw man argument, I don't think that's the case for most divers. The vast majority of divers don't take much more than basic open water, and some people actually do get something out of the training. As far as technical, cave, or wreck diving, I do feel that formal training has it's place.

But I'm not sure why you seem to be implying that there is problem with an industry trying to make money for the people who are doing it full time.. I don't know about canoeing or hiking, but anyone working full time in the diving industry needs to eat, right?

Does the dive industry really milk divers for an inappropriate amount of money? I just don't see that. It's not like we are talking about hedge fund managers, rock stars or NFL players here.

If you run a dive boat, you need to pay the crew, pay for gas, maintain the boat, and make a profit. If you are a full time instructor, you need to pay for your insurance and make a profit. If you build backplates, you need to pay your designers and manufacturers, stock inventory, run a sales force and make a profit. So why shouldn't the people who run a certifying agency make a profit too?

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm kinda glad that I live where I live and diving is still possible without someone owning the access and environment so I can ignore the craziness and just dive.

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Just had to reply. It's of course the same on the Rightcoast. I haven't used my dive flag here in 9 years--maybe saw 2 boats? Every summer I must revert to diving in the NY tristate area. It's fun and educational to get into the "craziness", but it's nice to just pull off the (gravel?) road and dive (solo-- cert.-less).