PADI responded to their OW swim requirement...

[Rick Murchison]

"As was mentioned in a prior post, PADI has significant marketing muscle as opposed to some of the other agencies. Should not they use that muscle to promote more ecologically sound diving practices?"

This sounds like PADI divers are killing the reef and it makes me laugh.

Have you seen what a hurricane does? (want to talk silting)
Dynamite/cyanide fishing?
Trawling?
Fertilizer?
Parrot fish?
Dragging anchors?

Yes I do very much agree that basic bouyancy control is very important to the health of the reef but to put the blame on divers is silly.

Hmmm... Perhaps the prime example where an easy comparison can be made is Bonaire. The whole reef, all the way around the Island, is a marine park and has been for quite a while. No dynamite, no cyanide, trawling, anchoring... if there is any agricultural runoff I can't imagine where it'd come from, and even if there were, it'd be distributed all 'round the Island.
What isn't distributed equally around the Island is... Divers. Divers visit the lee side almost exclusively; the difference is dramatic and remarkable, especially soft coral density. My conclusion is that divers with poor buoyancy control have to be the cause of most of the damage on the lee side. And it is substantial.
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hmmm... Perhaps the prime example where an easy comparison can be made is Bonaire. The whole reef, all the way around the Island, is a marine park and has been for quite a while. No dynamite, no cyanide, trawling, anchoring... if there is any agricultural runoff I can't imagine where it'd come from, and even if there were, it'd be distributed all 'round the Island.
What isn't distributed equally around the Island is... Divers. Divers visit the lee side almost exclusively; the difference is dramatic and remarkable, especially soft coral density. My conclusion is that divers with poor buoyancy control have to be the cause of most of the damage on the lee side. And it is substantial.
Rick

Well that shoots that idea. My wife and were talking about going diving someplace. I usually hide in caves but thought I might like to get out in the sun light a bit for a change. I don't like having to dive on someone elses schedule (charter boats) so we thought, why not someplace with good easy shore diving. Of course Bonaire came up. I don't need to go there and pay to see a bunch if kicked to death coral. I can stay here and find something to agrivate me. LOL

 

[ams511]

I probably wouldn't take a PADI tech course because I've read through the materials and don't care for what they teach or how. You really don't need to have your buddy hold onto your legs when you shoot a bag. Honest!

We could have plenty of discussion about the other tech agencies too but we'll leave that for another time.

I would agree Mike, I shot bags during my AOW and never had or needed a buddy to hold my leg.

 

[Thalassamania]

The Padi 5 Star IDC Center that I ran wasn't forced to only sell PADI materials. We also stocked and sold the NOAA manual and several other books from different vendors that were aimed to education.

We just couldnt sell training books from NAUI,SSI,NASDS and so on.

I found for some people the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving to be a little easier reading and more what they were looking for than the NOAA Manual.

As I recall there's no discount on the NOAA Manual from the Government Printing Office. so there's no profit there. I always thought they needed to fix that, maybe they have.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Well that shoots that idea. My wife and were talking about going diving someplace. I usually hide in caves but thought I might like to get out in the sun light a bit for a change. I don't like having to dive on someone elses schedule (charter boats) so we thought, why not someplace with good easy shore diving. Of course Bonaire came up. I don't need to go there and pay to see a bunch if kicked to death coral. I can stay here and find something to agrivate me. LOL

Oh, don't get me wrong... the lee side reefs are still wonderful, especially compared to places where there is widespread fishing & other "pressure" activities. But the windward side... the windward side is nearly untouched - fantastic in its health and biodensity.
By all means go to Bonaire - you'll love it. And if you get a chance to dive the windward side, well, be prepared for a most pleasant surprise.
Rick

 

[socal619]

Hi everyone,
I'm a new diver and a new member to this board. I've been watching this discussion because I was particularly interested in the topic of the swim requirements for OW certification. It was of interest to me because I had difficulty doing the 200 yd swim, and opted for the 300 yd snorkel instead (I can fin all day long). I'm a runner and cyclist, I'm all legs and lungs, and pretty negatively bouyant. The float/tread was torture for me, but I employed techniques I learned back in Marine Corps bootcamp, like holding my breath (using my huge lung capacity) to help stay afloat. I don't panic in the water and am overall pretty comfortable, I used to surf back in SoCal. Would any of you instructors have turned me away? Would my inability to do an efficient crawlstroke (or whatever) make me unable to learn to dive? I was able to complete the training with no more difficulty than any of the other students. I understand the safety implications of having a minimum swim requirement, but if I'm ever in a situation where I lose my regs/tank, BC, mask/snorkel AND fins, I'm pretty much screwed anyway. I'm perfectly aware that your (all you salty dogs) experience grants you a perspective I can not attain, at least not for a few years. But I think the swim requirements are OK where they are. If they were tougher, I may not be able to enjoy this sport. I've lived near and worked around the oceans all my life, and it would break my heart to not be able to view them from the unique perspective that diving provides.

As far as the comments on skills learned during OW certification, I agree that not much is learned. But if the curriculum were structured so that a lot more emphasis were placed on these skills, the class may turn into something more complicated and ultimately more expensive. Which would turn a lot of people off. Just like anything I learned in the Marines, or any subsequent education, what they teach are just the foundation for more advanced skills. The rest is up to the student. Which brings me to my next question, could I realistically hope to learn these skills on my own through practice, or would it be beneficial to me to look for a mentor/instructor? Anyway, just my two cents, please don't be harsh, I'm a newb =).

 

[tedj01]

..... I understand the safety implications of having a minimum swim requirement, but if I'm ever in a situation where I lose my regs/tank, BC, mask/snorkel AND fins, I'm pretty much screwed anyway. ......

I want to stay out of the discussion of swim requirements. But I have a problem with your statement above. You know you are negative. This should be part of your dive planning, starting at the long term level. Wear enough wetsuit so you do not sink! Then you can lose all that stuff and you are not totally screwed. Didn't you learn the 7 P's in the military?

When you are taking a class and need to meet a swim requirement - you can not wear it then. But plan ahead and wear one elsewhere! I also suggest you try swimming with the wetsuit on. I have met people that were unable to swim well w/o a wetsuit.

 

[lazyturtle]

As far as the comments on skills learned during OW certification, I agree that not much is learned. But if the curriculum were structured so that a lot more emphasis were placed on these skills, the class may turn into something more complicated and ultimately more expensive. Which would turn a lot of people off. Just like anything I learned in the Marines, or any subsequent education, what they teach are just the foundation for more advanced skills. The rest is up to the student. Which brings me to my next question, could I realistically hope to learn these skills on my own through practice, or would it be beneficial to me to look for a mentor/instructor? Anyway, just my two cents, please don't be harsh, I'm a newb =).

You have the sort of attitude that will (eventually) get you the skills you need. The OW course is intended to be a ENTRY level course, to be followed by....diving. The only way to become a good diver is to dive, not continously take courses. Ideally you should try and find a buddy who has more experience to dive with, that way you'll have someone to give you pointers. Even if your dive buddy is of the same experience level as yourself, you'll pick it up as you go as diving is not terribly complicated. Either path (given time) will lead you to being a good diver. Despite what's being said here, good divers are not produced directly from OW classes, they got a good foundation from the OW class to become a good diver in the future.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... difficulty doing the 200 yd swim ... runner and cyclist, I'm all legs and lungs, and pretty negatively bouyant. The float/tread was torture for me ... don't panic in the water and am overall pretty comfortable ... understand the safety implications of having a minimum swim requirement, but ...

Negative buoyancy (for someone in reasonably good shape) is irrelevant. Many olympic swimmers are negatively buoyant, even with a full breath.
To be blunt, (and as a Marine I know you won't mind) what you have is a lack of education. Invest in a couple of swimming lessons. Since you're already comfortable in the water, it'll take you oh, 15 minutes or so to learn a decent Australian crawl; in an hour you can be competent (not competitive, but competent) at breast, side, and back strokes as well as a couple of "max relax" techniques of moving through the water.
Ain't no big deal.
Rick

 

[Walter]

Would any of you instructors have turned me away? Would my inability to do an efficient crawlstroke (or whatever) make me unable to learn to dive?

I probably would not have turned you away. You said you had difficulty with the swim, you didn't say you couldn't do it. I'm not a PADI Instructor, so I don't have the option of letting you do a 300 yd snorkel. Our swim test is a 300 yd swim. As long as you can pass that, along with the underwater swim of 50 feet and the 15 minute tred/float/drown proof, we can continue. OTOH, if you actually mean you couldn't swim instead of having difficulty swimming, I would tell you to come back when you can.