Question PADI Rescue Diver Chest compressions

[Mod63]

I have not looked at any of the PADI rescue diver info, but as a 20+ year emergency medicine professional (EMT, Paramedic, ER RN, ENP) I cannot think of any situation where in water CPR will be effective.

I began my medical career as a teenager as a lifeguard. We trained to get the person out of the water before initiating CPR.

In theory rescue breaths may help someone who is unresponsive, not breathing, but happens to still have a pulse. That is likely to be a very specific situation.

Exactly. Even when rescue breaths were a mandatory skill to perform some 20 years ago, my instructors told me to shut up and do them for the exam and then forget about them. "Grab and swim" I was told, don't waste time.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

traditional chest compressions in the water kind of sounds like intentional drowning. I can't believe I'm saying this but I think Happy has the right idea.

There are varying schools of thought about in-water rescue breaths versus just getting the patient to the boat or land. Giving rescue breaths in the water is difficult and can exhaust you very quickly (fin up, flick your hand, reach, pinch nose, blow, repeat). Personally, I am of the mindset that it is better to get them to land or a boat as fast as possible and then start chest compressions. If their heart isn't beating, rescue breaths aren't going to squat anyways.

 

[JohnN]

The PADI Rescue Diver curriculum doesn't recommend giving chest compressions while in water. Per the e-learning: "If you are more than five minutes from surface support give rescue breaths for one to two minutes while watching the victim for signs of movement or other response to the ventilations. If there is a response, but continued absence of spontaneous breathing by the victim, continue providing rescue breaths while towing the diver to the surface support. If there is no response to this period of rescue breathing then cardiac arrest is likely. Rescue breaths don’t benefit someone in cardiac arrest without chest compressions, so it’s necessary to get the victim out of the water as quickly as possible to start CPR. Discontinue rescue breaths in favor of speed. Tow the victim to safety as quickly as possible, exit the water, perform a circulation check and begin CPR and rescue breathing as appropriate according to your Emergency First Response training."

Can you post the specific recommendation listed in the SCUBA diving mag you're referring to, as well as who the "experts" are?

This came from "SCUBA Diving", June 2024. (FWIW the magazine is a PADI publication)

The excerpt:
"The PADI Rescue Diver course teaches that when you discover an unconscious diver in the water, you should protect his or her airway. Get the diver's face out of the water and shield it from waves or splash. Get the diver positively buoyant. Then you have a decision to make. The diver will need for you to breathe for them and deliver chest compressions as well to maintain circulation"

 

[justinthedeeps]

This came from "SCUBA Diving", June 2024. (FWIW the magazine is a PADI publication)

The excerpt:
"The PADI Rescue Diver course teaches that when you discover an unconscious diver in the water, you should protect his or her airway. Get the diver's face out of the water and shield it from waves or splash. Get the diver positively buoyant. Then you have a decision to make. The diver will need for you to breathe for them and deliver chest compressions as well to maintain circulation"

As we know, PADI has quite the imagination when it comes to inventing itself as an authority on everything and everything that a diver does between waking up and going to sleep, and tacking a price and "certification" on it.

Listen to the EMS/EMT/doctors here, check for breathing, and get your patient the hell out of the water as soon as you can. Yes protect the airway and spine if possible.

I am still waiting on my PADI Advanced Breathing on the Surface (or not) card.

The PADI Rescue Diver Course is slightly more than a merit badge (and product) under their payment program. It finally spends a little bit of time on some common sense things that were for some reason not already covered in prior courses that introduce people to a life-threatening sport, some of whom still cannot swim, manage buoyancy, check their tank and regulators, or handle a mask replacement underwater, despite being given a certification card for "mastering" those skills exactly once or twice under close babysitting from an overworked, overbooked, and underpaid PADI 'contract employee'

 

[Outbound]

As we know, PADI has quite the imagination when it comes to inventing itself as an authority on everything and everything that a diver does between waking up and going to sleep, and tacking a price and "certification" on it.

Listen to the EMS/EMT/doctors here, check for breathing, and get your patient the hell out of the water as soon as you can. Yes protect the airway and spine if possible.

I am still waiting on my PADI Advanced Breathing on the Surface (or not) card.

The PADI Rescue Diver Course is slightly more than a merit badge (and product) under their payment program. It finally spends a little bit of time on some common sense things that were for some reason not already covered in prior courses that introduce people to a life-threatening sport, some of whom still cannot swim, manage buoyancy, check their tank and regulators, or handle a mask replacement underwater, despite being given a certification card for "mastering" those skills exactly once or twice under close babysitting from an overworked, overbooked, and underpaid PADI 'contract employee'

Exactly! I mean, it's not like any other training agency offers those stupid "rescue diver" courses! It's just a PADI money grab thing.

Oh, wait:

Rescue Scuba Diver

Rescue Scuba Diver

www.naui.org

Start your SSI Diver Stress and Rescue Specialty course – Get certified with SSI

Learn to identify stress, how to prevent accidents, and discover rescue diver skills with the SSI Diver Stress and Rescue Specialty program. Help yourself and other divers to stay safe. Start this course today.

www.divessi.com

 

[justinthedeeps]

@Outbound it does indeed appear to be a race to the bottom line ($$$).

The customer doesn't seem to care either, just give me a card so I can dive on this trip.

Pump the numbers and sell insurance!

 

[justinthedeeps]

Some PADI instructors are actually teaching the Rescue Diver Course like people's lives actually depend on it.

You guys and gals are the REAL HEROES.

I've only seen a few of them in the wild though. Most of them aren't given enough time (or money) to teach anything properly.

 

[boulderjohn]

This came from "SCUBA Diving", June 2024. (FWIW the magazine is a PADI publication)

The excerpt:
"The PADI Rescue Diver course teaches that when you discover an unconscious diver in the water, you should protect his or her airway. Get the diver's face out of the water and shield it from waves or splash. Get the diver positively buoyant. Then you have a decision to make. The diver will need for you to breathe for them and deliver chest compressions as well to maintain circulation"

This is mind boggling.

As was quoted earlier, the actual course teaches that you cannot do chest compressions in the water. The rescue scenario that instructors are required to teach and on which they are all tested for certification does not include in-water chest compressions.

First aid courses today teach that if the victim is not breathing, then the blood is also not circulating, which is the reason chest compressions are so important. There is an exception for drowning, though--it is possible that in a drowning, the blood is still circulating. That's the hope, along with the possibility that the victim will vomit water and begin breathing quickly.

There is no doubt that the climax of the rescue course, the surfacing (etc.) of a non-breathing diver, is a serious situation. For more than 15 years on ScubaBoard, I have challenged anyone to provide a true example of a case in which an unbreathing diver has been brought to the surface and later revived after having gone through the entire rescue sequence of the rescuer removing the victim's gear and his/her own gear while simultaneously providing rescue breaths and towing the victim to safety. I have never had anyone provide an example. I have had people give examples of people who were revived after being brought quickly to the boat or shore and given CPR there, so that would be my own personal inclination.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

My experience has been that the best instructors are independent and not beholden to a shop or dive center.

 

[boulderjohn]

My experience has been that the best instructors are independent and not beholden to a shop or dive center.

What percentage of the world's instructors have you experienced?