PADI Police in force

[TCDiver1]

I thought PADI had a 60 ft limit as a recommendation for new divers, not a rule. Also if the dive has a max depth limit of 80 ft. why couldn't the diver stay at 60 ft. if they wanted ?

Correct. It's a RECOMMENDATION ONLY, not a hard and fast rule. This DM is way off base to say it's a rule.

Good self evaluation skills and common sense are all you really to decide what conditions one should dive including how deep.

 

[RJP]

if I have paid a dive op money to be on the boat, you better believe I expect to be assigned another buddy/buddies if Im travelling alone.
Providing a service isnt about pointing at 2 guys, throwing them overboard and say be back in 60 minutes or less and dont go deeper than 90 feet..

Hmm...

I've never been on a boat anywhere in the world where "assigning a buddy" was part of the service. Much less "assigning a buddy that meets your specific criteria." I think expecting the dive op to do so is unreasonable, and fraught with problems.

Sure, they might say you must have a buddy. They might say "Ray, this is Bob. Bob, meet Ray..." and if we decide to dive together that's great. They might ultimately say "If you don't have a buddy your can dive with the DM/guide." But I've never been on a boat where they promised me a buddy that I'd really enjoy diving with.

 

[CharlesFoster00]

I think that a DM is no different than any other diver when it comes to calling a dive. You can call a dive for any reason, at any time. If the DM had a bad feeling about this dive, then he was right to follow his gut and call the dive. Too many people get pressured into making dives when they shouldn't, and putting themselves, their buddy, and others in harms way.

What if he had voiced his concerns, done the dive anyway, and there had been an incident?

Yes, the site you ended up going to wasn't as fantastic as the one you wanted, but nobody got hurt, and that's what really counts. If you really feel cheated, you should feel free to let the dive op know, and see if they'll make it right by comping another trip.

 

[oldogre]

My shortest ever Dive - 27mins max depth 18.9m (52ft.) - was with a superb buddy, who happens to be a DM. We were doing a boat Dive & she had trouble equalizing, so I called the Dive & we had a swim, while we waited for the others. For me that was the obvious thing to do. We had a Drink & a laugh afterwords, a few days later we did a Drift Dive together, a reef with a "challenging" current & thoroughly enjoyed it. I would always call a Dive before risking loosing a friendship.

 

[on_two_wheels]

I totally disagree.
It should be reasonable to expect that dive ops dont take unqualified divers to certain sites and anyone should be able to abort or cancel a dive at any time for any reason.
Also, despite having a guide you should have the opportunity to make alterations to the dive plan, such as max time and depth with whoever youre buddied with if that is physically possible at the site (which for rec diving mostly it is).
If I dont feel confident diving to 100 feet with you, I wont do it and if I have paid a dive op money to be on the boat, you better believe I expect to be assigned another buddy/buddies if Im travelling alone.
Providing a service isnt about pointing at 2 guys, throwing them overboard and say be back in 60 minutes or less and dont go deeper than 90 feet..

But you missed the point....it was 80 ft MAX, not MUST. He was being a baby. If he didn't feel confident then HE should dive to the depth he was confident his buddy could handle. He could have gone down to 60 feet or less. Last boat I went on (here in CA) anchored in 117 ft. We all swam a whopping 20 yards toward shore and decended down to....wait for it....45 feet!!!

As for those saying any diver can call a dive for any reason makes sense for THAT diver. I'd be pissed if this guy was on my boat. Hell, I'd give him 1/3 his money back (assuming 3 dive day) and tell him to sit his ass in the galley. Then I'd have taken his OW buddy with me so he doesn't become the same kind of diver. The funny thing is the OW diver with 36 dives was probably being spoken for by an AOW diver with 21 dives. Thank goodness for little plastic cards, huh?

By the way, I've been on SEVERAL boats that drop bow & stern anchors. Most recently it was the Magician out of San Pedro. The Sundiver did the same a couple weeks ago. Not uncommon at all for CA boats to drop both.

 

[TSandM]

Was this a wreck? Sometimes there ISN'T anything at a shallower depth.

It is not clear from the OP whether this was an instabuddy or a friend who was a novice diver. I have dived with newer divers who blow through gas at a rate where I would not even CONSIDER taking them to 80 feet, especially on a square profile.

Refusing to do it because it's a "rule" is silly. Refusing to do it because it's a bad idea is something else.

 

[Ghanguss]

None of the boats in CA I've been on have a planned location. Weather, vis, other boats, etc make that impossible. The closest they'll come is saying whether or not they want to go to Carmel (since it is a further ride and more sought after). But none of them promise or even venture a guess at the actual sites.

Some of the tropical places I visit make decisions while driving the boat, but most places in Sydney have a plan weeks ahead. Not to say the plan cant change due to weather or other circumstances but at least gives people a rough idea of dive locations.

Heres an operator that caters for novice through to technical divers. This certainly minimises the situation the OP discussed
http://scubaroos.com/calendar.htm

 

[fnfalman]

What does the PADI Police have to do with this? It's the diver that didn't want to make the dive. He/she should know best what condition he/she can handle. I know that it puts a crimper on that diver, but he/she was right in making that call for him/herself.

I also find it disappointing that there were no other divers on that boat that were willing to take this person on as a buddy and dive to his/her limit.

 

[RJP]

Because of this one guy we changed our dive site to a less exciting and shallower dive becasue the DM was worried about getting in trouble with PADI. My thought was 31 dives is plenty, you can't but experience and experience is what you really need. What do you guys think?

Suppose it went the other way? You did the deeper dive, and the newb - or anyone else - got into trouble?

At that point there'd be hell to pay!

"So, Mr DiveMaster... turning your attention to the PADI recommended depths for OW divers please explain to the jury - and the deceased's spouse - why you didn't change the dive plan even AFTER it had been pointed out that the deceased was not qualified to do the dive?"

Of course just being melodramatic for effect, but once someone on the boat raises their hand and says "I have a problem with this dive" you have to act on it. You cannot try to "talk them into it" or otherwise allow the rest of the passengers to exert conscious or unconscious peer pressure on that person to make the dive. In the case of the story you cite, it's quite possible that the OW newb specifically told or otherwise indicated to his new buddy he wasn't comfortable making the dive; perhaps that's why the guy who spoke up was so vociferous about it.

Dives sites get changed all the time, for far more capricious reasons than someone aboard not being comfortable with the depth. That's just the way it is...

 

[mikemill]

Some of the tropical places I visit make decisions while driving the boat, but most places in Sydney have a plan weeks ahead. Not to say the plan cant change due to weather or other circumstances but at least gives people a rough idea of dive locations.

Interestingly enough the only boat I've been on that had a calendar of planned sites was in Roatan.

Heres an operator that caters for novice through to technical divers. This certainly minimises the situation the OP discussed
http://scubaroos.com/calendar.htm

Kinda. One thing I don't see is any description of the sites which would be needed to avoid the OP's situation. It is an interesting idea, just not sure how well it'd work here.