PADI OW and BPW

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KenGordon

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Yeah, in pink it says "past and present". The past part is referencing the "front-mounted" style. Sure, there is an occasional dinosaur still diving one of these, but the last sentence in my original manual states: "Of these, crecreational divers by far most commonly use the jacket style."

Question, when you certified your wife, did she use a ABLJ? If you are associated with your shop, does your shop still train new divers with these?

We should be realistic on what divers are being trained with today. I only see new divers being trained in jacket style BCDs and BP/Ws. If there is any instructor/shop that uses ABLJ in their open water courses, I'd sure like a link to their website, as I won't believe it until I see it.
He was just saying Eric has no excuse not to know what an ABLJ is. I was assuming Eric was joking.

I have a backplate and clamp etc from that era, maybe I should go et on ebay for one.
 

wetb4igetinthewater

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He was just saying Eric has no excuse not to know what an ABLJ is. I was assuming Eric was joking.

One of the valuable lessons I've picked up from @boulderjohn is to keep interference theory in mind. There is nothing practical for a diver to know what an ABLJ is. I try in the open water courses I teach to only add what reinforces the core material that is useful or expands on it and is useful. Key word: useful.
 

Eric Sedletzky

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image.jpg

You mean one of these? Yeah I know what they are.
image.jpg

you use it with one of these.
I think if someone showed up to OW class with either they would think you’re either a smart ass, someone put you up to it as a joke, or you’re completely nuts.
 

KenGordon

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One of the valuable lessons I've picked up from @boulderjohn is to keep interference theory in mind. There is nothing practical for a diver to know what an ABLJ is. I try in the open water courses I teach to only add what reinforces the core material that is useful or expands on it and is useful. Key word: useful.
Maybe you should all keep quiet about those pesky bpws then?
 

wetb4igetinthewater

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Maybe you should all keep quiet about those pesky bpws then?
Are you saying that open water divers cannot be trained in a BP/W instead of a jacket style BCD? Or is that sarcasm? No emoticons so I'm not sure.
 

FishWatcher747

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No worries on the mixup.

I would love to have a diagram in all OW texts of a diver at 45 degrees with up-down arrows for mass and buoyancy/volume. Then a second with some lead shifted to move some of the down arrow to the shoulder or high back and the diver level. Plus a diagram of vertical and horizontal drag for 45 and horizontal divers. And one of the direction of kick thrust.

ETA: Maybe component arrows for diver, fins, tank, BC, and lead and an aggregate arrow for volume and mass centers. Some of the lead shifts, splitting a lead arrow and moving the new one higher up the body. That shifts (mostly) the aggregate mass arrow, making the aggregate arrows originate in nearly the same place. Making any orientation easy to achieve. We have those diagrams for buoyancy in OW texts. We do not have them for understanding and achieving a neutral weight distribution.

ETA2: You could simplify to component arrows for just diver, fins, and ballast. Less clutter that way for the wide-eyed overloaded OW student. Yet you still get in weight distribution and dynamic changes via leg extension/retraction.

I love these suggestions for the written material for OW. Diagrams with arrows showing how to change the distribution of weight to attain proper horizontal trim.

My suggestion would be similar to the old parable that says feed a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. I see a lot of emphasis about what the instructor should do. I think the written material should teach that the student needs to perform a trim test underwater. Maybe this is expecting too much for OW but would instill the knowledge how to do this in subsequent dives on ones own.
 

KenGordon

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Are you saying that open water divers cannot be trained in a BP/W instead of a jacket style BCD? Or is that sarcasm? No emoticons so I'm not sure.
I am saying that fallowing the logic of educational interference when we just point out that there is more in the world of diving than the current fashion we’d have to keep quiet about BPW, primary donate and all the things SB holds dear.

I am not being sarcastic, I am suggesting either a touch of hypocrisy or you (deliberately?) misinterpretation what @Ucarkus said.

I found a mint Spiro Fenzy with box, never wet, on eBay, twice the price of a somewhat used Buddy ABLJ though. I always wanted a Fenzy when I was a kid. Rocks were cheaper though.

Carry on with your “equipment solutions to skills problems” though.
 

wetb4igetinthewater

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I am saying that fallowing the logic of educational interference when we just point out that there is more in the world of diving than the current fashion we’d have to keep quiet about BPW, primary donate and all the things SB holds dear.

I am not being sarcastic, I am suggesting either a touch of hypocrisy or you (deliberately?) misinterpretation what @Ucarkus said.

I found a mint Spiro Fenzy with box, never wet, on eBay, twice the price of a somewhat used Buddy ABLJ though. I always wanted a Fenzy when I was a kid. Rocks were cheaper though.

Carry on with your “equipment solutions to skills problems” though.
I think the concept went over your head. ABLJ's may be used, but those are exceptions. Is anyone taught open water in ABLJs? No. Then why learn about them? Equating that to teaching open water in BP/W is just ... missplaced. You should know better.

"Equipment solutions to skills problems...." That's from way out in left field. You can teach NB/T in jacket style BCDs just as in BP/W. But everyone knows that. Unless you are referring to something else.
 

happy-diver

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It's about the diving it's only about the diving


So open your padi book again and go diving
as they sure don't want you to learn on here

If heads were big as egos, they would not fit
 

Scuba Scott

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Let's see....PADI announced its Enriched Air course in Jan 1996.....so a quarter-century ago.

Well I guess that officially makes me an old man then. My TDI Nitrox cert is from 1995.
I remember going into a PADI shop and asking if they offered it. They looked at me like I was some kind of psychopath. My backplate and wing did not improve my image.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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