PADI necessary hidden skills

[KenGordon]

Sounds like a pretty good deal for those who are short on cash, long on time and energy, and want to dive a lot. Maybe not such a great deal for less frequent divers, or those who have demanding jobs that pay well but leave little free time to relax--perhaps a more common complaint in the US than in the UK?

Learning with a club is not cheaper than learning with a commercial school. The difference is that you get a bunch of people to dive with and who you will see for more than a couple of weekends. Ideally people would pay some school to do OW or OD and then join a club to actually go diving. That way people like me would get to do more proper diving rather than looking after brand new divers. Of course there are people that enjoy all that as much or more than jumping in the sea.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

How about diving from and getting back on board one of those rubber dinghy things and negative entry?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The OP may be interested in some of the lesser known dive agencies. Just sayin'.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Quite a lot of low-viz experienced divers are used to determining descent speed by looking at particles floating in the water, or by simply following a slope.
I remember briefing a group of instructors (!) to do a negative entry and drop as fast as possible below 25m, otherwise they'd overshoot the divesite in the strong current (Ari atol, Maldives). They overshot the site three times in a row. After getting back on the boat again and again, jump four was successful.

Determining depth and distance in crystal clear water can be overwhelming when combined with a strong current. Especially when you see nothing but blue during descent in all directions. The experience you have until then, turns out to be of little value in a totally different environment.

For some reason, colder seems to be better. Many instructors, teaching in the cold-water areas, look down on the tropical holiday divers and regard the OW course in the tropics as useless. One reason is that the course was done in 4-5 days. The OW courses I taught in the Maldives were 9 dives of 60 minutes. That's 540 minutes of in-water experience.
The water temperature here is too cold for 1-hour dives, unless you bought your own perfect fitting wetsuit halfway through the course. And the 1-hour pool session are usually 45 minutes of in-water experience. And is 1 hour per week of diving better than 2x 1 hour each day?

The only competition element in diving should the amount of fun you have. Especially in the beginning.

Interesting, I always use my wrist mounted dive computer (and I provide Shearwaters to my students - but my classes are only 2 people) and teach them to use that. Pretty much doesn't matter the viz, good or bad, that's the tool I prefer.

 

[Sbiriguda]

Learning with a club is not cheaper than learning with a commercial school. The difference is that you get a bunch of people to dive with and who you will see for more than a couple of weekends. Ideally people would pay some school to do OW or OD and then join a club to actually go diving. That way people like me would get to do more proper diving rather than looking after brand new divers. Of course there are people that enjoy all that as much or more than jumping in the sea.

The advice I got when I asked which agency I should choose was more or less choose what you feel to be a group of friends for you with a good instructor so that you will go on practicing scuba. Otherwise most agencies and groups (PADI, SSI, FIPSAS/CMAS etc.) are relatively similar and all good for a beginner

 

[KenGordon]

The advice I got when I asked which agency I should choose was more or less choose what you feel to be a group of friends for you with a good instructor so that you will go on practicing scuba. Otherwise most agencies and groups (PADI, SSI, FIPSAS/CMAS etc.) are relatively similar and all good for a beginner

It depends on what you want to do. If a couple is going on holiday in 3 months and wants to dive tropical reefs then a school is the only option and friends don’t matter. On the other hand, if someone wants a regular hobby they can do often or locally then getting together as a club makes sense. The training differences are due to the different heritage of the club vs commercial systems. Clubs started before cheap international travel and derived training from the military. People had to dive in European conditions and the people organising stuff were very old school, hence long convoluted training systems with nothing made easy. The commercial providers grew in easier conditions and had time pressure for the training so only essential skills and short courses were developed.

 

[yle]

I've never been in "cold" (below 10 C) water, even though all my local diving is in either a 7mm with hood and gloves or a drysuit. I think the coldest bottom temp I've encountered so far is 53F/11C.

Try going to the Yukon in March. It should get down to the high 40's (8 to 9 C) I distinctly remember a 47 degree dive there years ago. Once... only once. In a 7mm and hood. It made quite an impression.

Redondo Canyon should get to around the same temperature in March also.

 

[Marie13]

Try going to the Yukon in March. It should get down to the high 40's (8 to 9 C) I distinctly remember a 47 degree dive there years ago. Once... only once. In a 7mm and hood. It made quite an impression.

Redondo Canyon should get to around the same temperature in March also.

Try a 50F water temp and a 20F air temp. Had that one yesterday...

 

[VikingDives]

In his post Edward show how some competences and skills that in PADI and other agencies are segregated specialties or (I will add) learnt during Open Water and Advanced are clearly listed and described as tasks to be completed during the equivalent of the PADI OW or AOW course. I found that post very interesting because it's very clear it shows necessary skills that are highlighted very well and probably better than in the PADI approach

What are exactly the "hidden" skills in PADI Open Water or Advanced Open Water? Would you add some to the list below give by the BSAC?

Thanks

A lot (some?) of those skills are included in PADI courses, but it depends on where you're getting certified. A friend of mine was certified by PADI in the UK. She did her entire open water course in a dry suit.

I'm a thousand miles from an ocean and train students in a crystal clear artesian well that's 62 degrees year round, dry suits aren't a necessity here.

If you look in your manual, there's discussion of boat diving, and there's strong suggestion to get guided dives if you go somewhere new.

My view is that teaching skills a student won't practice regularly isn't doing them a favor. I'd venture to say that 99 percent of students 2 weeks after open water can't remember how to use an RDP.

All the open water skills perish too, which is why agencies have refresher courses When I taught them, it was not unusual for divers to have forgotten simple skills like regulator recovery or mask removal.

That being said, doing a dive on nitro is allowed in PADI's open water course, but it doesn't come with the same level of knowledge that is acceptable for the average student to understand the risk.

If you are losing basic skills, is it really of value to you to teach more advanced skills that you'll not practice frequently? I'm not sure it is.

 

[tursiops]

If you look in your manual, there's discussion of boat diving, and there's strong suggestion to get guided dives if you go somewhere new.

Yes, exactly. Terrific advice.....but unfortunately rarely followed.

If you are losing basic skills, is it really of value to you to teach more advanced skills that you'll not practice frequently? I'm not sure it is.

On the other hand, at least it lets the diver know that something exists and maybe what some of the main issues are. Probably this is better than knowing nothing at all. Yes, the physical skills go away, but the knowledge of what they are less so. You move from "you don't know what you don't know" to "you no longer know what you did know."