PADI Knowledge Reviews

[rob.mwpropane]

Of course, the average SB poster thinks it is all money gouging and cannot understand why those money grubbing instructors are charging anything.

On the contrary, for as much time as they invested I would think they deserve more. I know all the instructors have day jobs / other jobs. I think in the long run though, I probably will "give more". It's been such a great experience, the wife and kids are planning to get signed up in Jan/Feb, and I plan to further my experience with this shop.

We’re getting away from the PADI issue. Why do Padi charge more than twice as much for E-learning? They don’t have to provide a textbook, stickers, student folder. Just a click and access to the server. Makes no sense.

I would have thought the same. When I first started looking into it, I was blown away that actual course "packets" were less expensive than e-learning. Maybe it's a "convenience" charge? Trying to recoup money as fast as possible for time / money spent on switching over? It will no doubt come down in time. And that godawful DVD. What a waste that is. Most expensive frisbee I ever bought, at least the books were enlightening. (Just a personal rant, I know it's off topic).

 

[boulderjohn]

In my area, the going rate for a plumber is $175 per hour, with a one hour minimum charge. The fact that they can all charge that much shows that people must be willing to pay that much to have someone come into the house and change a washer or install a toilet. I once had an electrician come out and do three things that were beyond my confidence zone. He charged a standard rate for each of the services, which took him 15 minutes total and cost me about $700.

Imagine the complaints if a scuba shop were to charge anything remotely like that for servicing a regulator or teaching a scuba class. It really seems funny to me that people see charges like that as being justified for just about anyone who is out to earn a living except in scuba, where professionals are expected to donate their services.

 

[Marie13]

I guess I'm surprised to hear folks actually tearing the pages out of the books. I did the e-learning for my SDI OW and nitrox classes, but for the Advanced specialties and Rescue, the questions are in the books (at the end of each chapter), but there are also little Q&A booklets stuck in the books for the students to actually write in. One of my books came without the Q&A booklet, and as my handwriting is difficult for most people to read, I just typed up the questions in Word and then typed up my answers. That worked so well I did it for the rest of my specialties and Rescue. It was much easier for me to keep a copy for future reference, as it was already on my computer. I'm assuming the OW and Nitrox books have the Q&A booklets, as well.

 

[Bob DBF]

It really seems funny to me that people see charges like that as being justified for just about anyone who is out to earn a living except in scuba, where professionals are expected to donate their services.

I think it is more like scuba "professionals" are, in the most part, hobbists and bring down the price of training by wanting students more than renumeration. When the industry increases the standards and professionalism, and using that to limit the number of dive professionals that are certified, I do not see any change in the future.

There are a limited number of instructors that make a living, but they are not pandering to the masses and provide training to the bargain hunters. Real professionals, in any line of work, know what they are worth and refuse to do their work if they are not compensated properly.

A few years back, when I took some PADI training, I got the full on push to "Go Pro". Now it's not that I couldn't do the training, but I've been diving for over 50 years, and if I was interested in being a DM or instructor it would have happened decades ago. I guess the instructor was more interested in his pro count than he was in what I, as his student, wanted.

In the bigger picture, he would have certified another hobby instructor that would have a minimal interest in charging students more than my out of pocket costs. I already receive less than that as a mentor who cannot hand out a c-card. How does that help the industry?



Bob

 

[dcg69]

PADI have made it clear that the future is not going to include textbooks - the new paradigm (OLPC 3.0) will eventually be paper free. Sooner than think. We (and you too, I assume) already have students that look at a DVD as a quaint artifact. The idea of writing answers in a book is similarly arcane to them. PADI has finally woken up to this reality.

Very true. The last OW I certified could not watch the DVD as he had no player at home and his latest model laptop had no disc reader anymore.

 

[dcg69]

In my area, the going rate for a plumber is $175 per hour, with a one hour minimum charge. The fact that they can all charge that much shows that people must be willing to pay that much to have someone come into the house and change a washer or install a toilet. I once had an electrician come out and do three things that were beyond my confidence zone. He charged a standard rate for each of the services, which took him 15 minutes total and cost me about $700.

Imagine the complaints if a scuba shop were to charge anything remotely like that for servicing a regulator or teaching a scuba class. It really seems funny to me that people see charges like that as being justified for just about anyone who is out to earn a living except in scuba, where professionals are expected to donate their services.

The main difference is that if you're not good at DIY, you have no choice and you have to call a plumber or electrician at 175 $/hour.
Let's imagine tomorrow the entire scuba industry would start charging the same for lessons and services ... that means at least a couple of thousands $ just for an OW certification. There are hundreds of different hobbies people will chose before paying that money. How many years before the entire industry will die ?

 

[boulderjohn]

The main difference is that if you're not good at DIY, you have no choice and you have to call a plumber or electrician at 175 $/hour.
Let's imagine tomorrow the entire scuba industry would start charging the same for lessons and services ... that means at least a couple of thousands $ just for an OW certification. There are hundreds of different hobbies people will chose before paying that money. How many years before the entire industry will die ?

I understand. I realize that we have to charge a price that the public will be willing to accept. I just wish they understood that the prices are more reasonable then they may seem.

One of the problems with this is with the price people have to pay to a dive shop for their instruction. They assume that the instructor is getting most of that money, when in fact the instructor is only getting a tiny fraction of that money. Back when I was a DM teaching primarily discover scuba classes in the pool, I would occasionally get a tip, which I am sure the tipster assumed was a little extra added to my pay. Those tips were rare, but every one of them was more than my pay for the class.

Why does this happen? As the Director of Instruction of the shop where I last work said to me, "Instructors are a dime a dozen." He said he averaged an instructor coming in looking for work about every other week. That does not give you as an individual instructor much leverage. I would bet that if an extremely highly qualified instructor were to send a résumé to all the shops in my area, most would toss it in the trash without reading it.

 

[Roger Hobden]

I understand. I realize that we have to charge a price that the public will be willing to accept. I just wish they understood that the prices are more reasonable then they may seem.

One of the problems with this is with the price people have to pay to a dive shop for their instruction. They assume that the instructor is getting most of that money, when in fact the instructor is only getting a tiny fraction of that money. Back when I was a DM teaching primarily discover scuba classes in the pool, I would occasionally get a tip, which I am sure the tipster assumed was a little extra added to my pay. Those tips were rare, but every one of them was more than my pay for the class.

Why does this happen? As the Director of Instruction of the shop where I last work said to me, "Instructors are a dime a dozen." He said he averaged an instructor coming in looking for work about every other week. That does not give you as an individual instructor much leverage. I would bet that if an extremely highly qualified instructor were to send a résumé to all the shops in my area, most would toss it in the trash without reading it.

That's terrible. I had no idea ...

 

[Bob DBF]

Let's imagine tomorrow the entire scuba industry would start charging the same for lessons and services ... that means at least a couple of thousands $ just for an OW certification. There

In 1980, when I finally had to get certified, the OW class cost more than the same cert would cost now if I shopped around. In inflation adjusted dollars from then I could probably do OW, AOW, and Rescue today.

There are two issues now, I believe, that made this change. First is the instant gratification and short attention span of society today. Checking off a bucket list item and bragging rights are important, not the commitment and skill to a dicipline. The second is the push to certify as many divers as possible as instructors and DM's has made their services common and cheap, making the "McDonalds" model possible.


Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

There are two issues now, I believe, that made this change. First is the instant gratification and short attention span of society today. Checking off a bucket list item and bragging rights are important, not the commitment and skill to a dicipline. The second is the push to certify as many divers as possible as instructors and DM's has made their services common and cheap, making the "McDonalds" model possible.

There is another change that made a big difference in price, and this change is legitimate.

In the earliest days of instruction, all the academic material was delivered by an instructor in a series of lectures. This was time consuming and inefficient, and the instructor had to be paid for his or her time while delivering those lectures. That system was then replaced by home study and review, which was a much more effective and efficient method of instruction, and it took my less paid instructor time.