PADI Knowledge Reviews

[TMHeimer]

I didn't read all the posts having been away. I took all my courses before e learning was available (or at least common), the last one except DM was in 2007. Of course there was no way for anyone to know if anyone Xeroxed anything to keep for themselves before handing in either originals or copies. Of course I never did that, nor did I EVER Xerox any music when teaching Band...... I would advise against posting anything online as it can obviously be easily traced back to you.

 

[boulderjohn]

Of course there was no way for anyone to know if anyone Xeroxed anything to keep for themselves before handing in either originals or copies. Of course I never did that, nor did I EVER Xerox any music when teaching Band...... I would advise against posting anything online as it can obviously be easily traced back to you.

There is nothing illegal about copying pages out of a book for personal records. You bought the book, and you have the right to do things like that with it. It would only be illegal if you made photocopies and then sold them to someone who would otherwise have to purchase the book, thus taking profit for yourself that should have gone to the copyright holder.

That is why it is illegal to do what you describe in school--you are depriving the copyright owner of earned income by making copies of something that would otherwise need to be purchased. As a former English teacher, I know that school English departments often have files of photocopied short stories--those are all illegal. They frequently record shows off of TV, and those are usually (not always) illegal. In my old school district, a teacher showed a video taken off TV, not knowing that one of his students was the daughter of its producer. It did not go well for him.

 

[Bob DBF]

There is another change that made a big difference in price, and this change is legitimate

I understand your point, although you overlook the positive value of classroom team building. My OW instructor probably agreed with your method as their were very few lectures, as such. The bookwork was done before the class and the classes were review, clarification, and mostly question and answer on the material and a wide range of diving information.

To imply that it is not ligitimate that price is driven down by persons that are looking for a bargain and instructors that will work for virtually nothing, is overlooking the obvious.


Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

To imply that it is not ligitimate that price is driven down by persons that are looking for a bargain and instructors that will work for virtually nothing, is overlooking the obvious.

My use of the term "legitimate" was unfortunate. I did not mean it as you quite understandably interpreted it. The two items you mention are not beneficial reasons for change, while the one I mentioned was. That is what I meant when I misused the word "legitimate."

 

[Saniflush]

Why do Padi charge more than twice as much for E-learning? T

Because apparently those REALLY bad actors in their videos cost a LOT!

 

[TMHeimer]

There is nothing illegal about copying pages out of a book for personal records. You bought the book, and you have the right to do things like that with it. It would only be illegal if you made photocopies and then sold them to someone who would otherwise have to purchase the book, thus taking profit for yourself that should have gone to the copyright holder.

That is why it is illegal to do what you describe in school--you are depriving the copyright owner of earned income by making copies of something that would otherwise need to be purchased. As a former English teacher, I know that school English departments often have files of photocopied short stories--those are all illegal. They frequently record shows off of TV, and those are usually (not always) illegal. In my old school district, a teacher showed a video taken off TV, not knowing that one of his students was the daughter of its producer. It did not go well for him.

The reason some Band directors copy music is that kids lose it. Yes, they should be taught to be responsible, but some are not. The original band parts are always purchased, but if one part is now missing, the whole original package must be re-purchased. This means you've bought it twice. Some pieces come with like 4 tuba parts (who has 4 tubas?) and only 4 flute parts (well, you have 14 flute players--that's a lot of eye-stretching sharing in rehearsals--, plus over time it is possible all 4 parts will "disappear" because the dog ate them). Of course, if all the flute parts disappear, you couldn't just order more flute parts, you had to buy the whole shootin' match again. The composers I'm sure know they are writing stuff that will be used in schools by anywhere from elementary to H.S. students--so this would be a built in way of getting your work sold twice. No doubt a different situation than most school related things. Some directors buy the piece, copy it all, and give those parts to the kids. I would never have done such a thing.

 

[markmud]

Hi OP Rob,

Yeah, as others have stated, I feel certain that this is a copy write issue.

Point #1: We pay so little for certs, and we pay so little for course materials, shouldn't we leave what little gross profit there is for the LDS and instructors?

Point #2: As Bob has written on more than one occasion, our certs have been devalued to the point that they are almost worthless (Bob, I hope I have not taken your thoughts out of context, please correct me if I am wrong).

As Boulderjohn has written, DMs and Instructors make next to nothing. Lets not further harm the system.

I would gladly pay more for course materials and certs if they allowed me to hop on a 787, fly to a place on the other side of the world, do a supervised check-out dive, and then be allowed to dive to my cert level. I am going to Bonaire in January, I hope the crew I am going with is successful in grouping divers with similar skill-sets together. Either way we will have fun. Just hoping to do advanced recreational dives.

To iterate: the current system needs help, and I am willing to pay more for certs and service if that changes the system.

Please don't copy and post the knowledge reviews, especially an answered review.

thanks,
markm

 

[Bob DBF]

To iterate: the current system needs help, and I am willing to pay more for certs and service if that changes the system.

Somehow I doubt if an increase in the price of certs will improve the system, because, as we have been told by a number of instructors, this is the best, most advanced training available in the history of diving.

People will pay what they think a service is worth, a proffessional should insure they sell their services for what they think they are worth. At this point in time scuba instruction is an inexpensive service. Unfortunately, at times the finished product suffers.


Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

Unfortunately, at times the finished product suffers.

That is true, but you assume that this is exclusively a new phenomenon. You did not see what was happening in other classes that did not include you when you were certified, so there is a natural tendency to assume those classes were just like yours. We see that tendency often on ScubaBoard, where people say that back when they were certified, all the instructors would turn off your air, rip off your mask, make you do pushups on the pool deck with full gear on, etc. That sort of thing did go on in many classes, but it was not standard and did not happen in all classes.

In this History of NAUI, the authors (including Al Tillman, NAUI Instructor #1) talk about a problem they had from the start (1960). instructors wanted to hand certification cards to students in a ceremony at the end of the class, so they sent in the student names when they registered and got the cards back before the class was over. The NAUI leaders knew a lot of people got the cards before they finished the class and then did not finish. They knew there were cases where divers got certification cards without even attending a single session. My cousin's training in the early 1960s took place on the sales floor of the sporting goods shop that sold him his gear. No pool. No open water.

 

[markmud]

Somehow I doubt if an increase in the price of certs will improve the system, because, as we have been told by a number of instructors, this is the best, most advanced training available in the history of diving.

People will pay what they think a service is worth, a proffessional should insure they sell their services for what they think they are worth. At this point in time scuba instruction is an inexpensive service. Unfortunately, at times the finished product suffers.


Bob

Hi Bob,

I think you are correct. I can resort to overly optimistic and unrealistic thinking now and then, can't I?

markm