PADI Holds The New World's Record for Fastest OW Class

[MikeFerrara]

Perhaps what ScubyDoo meant to say was that PADI has top notch training in regards to training ordinary people how to dive safely and effectively. You're right though; they don't train them to be as perfect as your other agencies must have made you.

Maybe you'd like to give us your definition of safe and effective? I don't have any agency and how perfect I am or am not has no bearing at all on the discussion. I offered a nuts and bolts discussion of the specific contents of the training standards and what I see as problems. As always a few respond with insults but never does any one discuss the standards.

Are you prepared to discuss the standards point by point or would you rather just whine about how perfect I am?

Then again, would you criticize every Pop Warner, high school or college coach that doesn't make every football player an immediate Peyton Manning? Woops, I forgot he's not perfect either.

I have to admit that I have no clue what you're talking about here. Who is Pop Warner and what does football have to do with it? What does perfection have to do with it?

 

[craborn]

I was certified in two afternoons at the lake then tested with the test and the answer key when I was first certified by SSI. I think there are people doing a bad job in all of the agencies. BUT, I think we are doing a GREAT job don't you AL?

 

[ScubyDoo]

I'm going to call you on this. Can you explain in what way PADI training is top notch? In this thread and others I listed specific points that I see as faults in the standards, could you address those? I think the weak points in the standards are blatantly demonstratable yet you state their "top notch" with no support at all.

I'm going to call you on this too. I was partly trained by PADI instructors and I was a PADI instructor. That's what my conclusions about the effectiveness of their training standards are based on. I also have certifications from IANTD, NACD and TDI. You think I'm jealous? Really?

I'm sorry to say that I have not seen your specific critiques of PADI standards. Perhaps if you relisted some of them for me, I could better respond. Thanks :14:

 

[motorcitydiver]

I frequent several web sites that tend to bash PADI every chance they get. All of my certs are through PADI and I haven't been particularly thrilled with any of the instruction I received. My OW instructor didn't show up twice for pool work, my AOW was pretty good, and my Wreck Diver was basically just another dive that cost 3 times the money. I just assumed that all certifying agencies were this way. Just looking to make a buck or to see how many more divers they can train over the next guy.

 

[matts1w]

I frequent several web sites that tend to bash PADI every chance they get. My OW instructor didn't show up twice for pool work, my AOW was pretty good, and my Wreck Diver was basically just another dive that cost 3 times the money. I just assumed that all certifying agencies were this way. Just looking to make a buck or to see how many more divers they can train over the next guy.

motorcitydiver:

I know. There are people on here whose only existance on scubaboard is to dismantle certain agencies- especially PADI. Some make excellent points worthy of discussion, but it does make one wonder what their agenda is when they have NOTHING else to bring to a board that discusses what I believe is one of the greatest sports/activities there is.

I am sorry you got a poor instructor or used a shop with low standards. I guarntee the PADI shop I work for and many, many others would never tolerate an instructor that didnt show up for work or simply dump you on a wreck for the sake of earning a certification card. Was this the same shop for all the courses?

________________________________________

As for the weekend open water class, I believe we have a pretty good program. We spend about eight hours in the classroom on Saturday and eight in the pool on Sunday. Becuase of the long sessions, we do not let kids enroll as attention spans become an issue. We also make very clear that the weekend pace is quick and that certain students might find the three week class a better option.

If we find a student needs more time in the water, we REQUIRE as many Wednesday night pools sessions as needed to practice skills and build confidence before heading to the Keys for their two days of open water checkouts. We also offer Wednesday nights to any student who CHOOSES more practice or wants to build confidence. By the way, these extra pool sessions, either required or voluntary, with a PADI instructor are offered free of charge including rental gear and air.

 

[NadMat]

Once again, the real lesson is to check out your instructor before deciding where to take class. Also, know the course standards beforehand and let the cert agency know if you think you are getting substandard instruction. Without your feedback, they won't know about a poor instructor/shop.

 

[drdiver1952]

I think that there is something deep in human nature or evolution (probably something linked to survival factors that says--if everyone does it or uses it or it is big, it is bad--diversity is important)

I can imagine an aboriginal hunter gatherer saying, "No, no, don't eat those easily picked berries--let's go walk 20 miles and dig up some grubs"

I can imagine a guy saying "Sure that Andrew Carnegie's steel is cheap, but I like my local blacksmith better."

Apple and Microsoft no need to comment further.

The local hardware store and Walmart.

Everyone else and PADI
Market forces rule.

 

[Storm]

I know. There are people on here whose only existance on scubaboard is to dismantle certain agencies- especially PADI. Some make excellent points worthy of discussion, but is does make one wonder what their agenda is when they NOTHING else to bring to a board that discusses what I believe is one of the greatest sports/activities there is.

I'm hoping that you're not referring to me. I am not trying to dismantle ANY agency, merely discussing a potential to improve the training that new divers get.

I am sorry you got a poor instructor or used a shop with low standards.

This is exactly what I am talking about; I keep hearing this same thing, repeatedly and it was one reason, in addition to my one personal experience, that prompted my initial look into the training side of the industry.

It is as if the industry is prepared to allow individual instructors and LDS' to set, or the very least circumvent the standards, and then apologize to the student diver for it.

Let me very clear on this. I am not saying that the current level of is directly placing students in danger. Yes, there have been incidents, but they are in the vast minority. The basic training curriculum addresses the safety issues, but IMO does not go into the proficiency side regarding the act of diving. (Mainly trim, buoyancy control, various fin kicks, and diver assistance/trouble recognition.)

 

[Web Monkey]

I think that there is something deep in human nature or evolution (probably something linked to survival factors that says--if everyone does it or uses it or it is big, it is bad--diversity is important)

Actually, it works the opposite way. If a bunch of people are doing something, others will follow, not wanting to be left out.

In countries with product shortages, people will get on line without even knowing what the line is for, assuming that if everybody else want's some, they will too.

Everyone else and PADI
Market forces rule.

First, I couldn't give a rat's *** about PADI one way or the other, any more than I care about McDonalds or Burger King.

PADI gets dumped on because they're the market leader in designing OW cert classes that meet the RSTC requirements with the absolute minimum amount of time and student-teacher contact.

This isn't to say that all PADI divers or instructors are bad, just that it's possible to completely fulfill all the requirements for a PADI cert with a minimal investment in time and effort, and for divers to be certified without having the skills necessary to protect themselves, their buddies and the underwater environment.

Terry

 

[careerdiver]

Web Monkey, I understand your convictions, but hate to tell you that there are plenty of instructors from every agency that only cares about the number of certifications, not the quality of certification. As I stated before, one does not learn to dive sitting in the classroom. I use the classroom to expand on quesitons they might have, and help them through issues they did not understand. I am not going to hold their hand and walk them through the academics, if they want to learn to dive they must put some effort into it (i.e. reading the book, answering the knowledge reviews, watching the DVDs). They do not learn bouyancy sitting in a classroom. I can explain neutral bouyancy to someone but until the experience it they will not learn it. How would you teach someone to ride a bike, by lecturing them on balance? You may not like PADI and I respect that, and you do not have to like them, but in your 200 dives do you really know the best way to train someone?