PADI Holds The New World's Record for Fastest OW Class

[Storm]

Hey Storm! are you looking to close down diving? Cause that's what your going to get by advocating criminal penalties for dive instruction. Let's just work on our skills, shall we?

I am definately not advocating criminal penalities, but with any instrutor based system, there is a possibility that some ambulance chaser will try. The indusrty is not doing itself any favors by fastracking new divers and allowing themselves to enter into situations where they might not be fully trained and prepared for them. I firmly believe in being acountable for ones actions, and take fulll responsibility for my actions regardless of the training I've received, but not everyone belives the same.

 

[Zippsy]

I am definately not advocating criminal penalities, but with any instrutor based system, there is a possibility that some ambulance chaser will try.

Correct me if I am wrong but the point seems to be that "ambulance chasers" DON'T prosecute criminal cases; government entities / attorneys do.

 

[Storm]

Correct me if I am wrong but the point seems to be that "ambulance chasers" DON'T prosecute criminal cases; government entities / attorneys do.

I stand corrected. Perhaps I should have said "some ambitious prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves" but again I merely was pointing out that extremes can happen.

This was really a very minor point to my original thoughts about improving training standards, and should not be fixated upon. someone asked how the indusrty could hold unscrupulous instructor's feet to the fire in oder to ensure that standards are followed, and this was merely a floater, and not a suggestion or troll.

As someone said let's look to improvng skills, and maybe getting the industry to clean itself up, before some outside entity decides to take on the challenge.

Like I said, although Ive only been in the sport for a short time, I love this sport, but think there is room for improvement to the training methods and standards.

Dive safe.

 

[ScubyDoo]

More PADI bashing. Does it ever end? I cant speak for all LDS that provide instruction, but I can certainly speak for mine (which is PADI). They bend over backwards to make sure that every single student is not only properly trained, but trained well enough to embarrass most other divers. The PADI training system is top notch. Can it be applied poorly....sure it can. So can every other agency training standard. Its not the training standards that are to fault, it is the instructors or LDS who teach/apply them. PADI has a system in place to weed out Instructors who fail to follow standards, and if necessary revoke thier Instructor rating.

I honestly think that non-PADI divers are just jealous because PADI has developed a very successful marketing campaign which is slowly driving other certifying agencies out of business. It reminds me of all the people who hate Wal-Mart.

 

[Storm]

More PADI bashing. Does it ever end? I cant speak for all LDS that provide instruction, but I can certainly speak for mine (which is PADI). They bend over backwards to make sure that every single student is not only properly trained, but trained well enough to embarrass most other divers. The PADI training system is top notch. Can it be applied poorly....sure it can. So can every other agency training standard. Its not the training standards that are to fault, it is the instructors or LDS who teach/apply them. PADI has a system in place to weed out Instructors who fail to follow standards, and if necessary revoke thier Instructor rating.

I honestly think that non-PADI divers are just jealous because PADI has developed a very successful marketing campaign which is slowly driving other certifying agencies out of business. It reminds me of all the people who hate Wal-Mart.

The original post may fall into bashing, but I'm not talking about one single agency, but the base standards upon which all agnecies design their course offereings.

I honestly think that non-PADI divers are just jealous because PADI has developed a very successful marketing campaign which is slowly driving other certifying agencies out of business. It reminds me of all the people who hate Wal-Mart.

This is exactly what I am reffering to. You mention a "successful marketing campaign", not a "successful training campaign". Sure the drive for increased market share can be acheived through volume, (which appears to be what all agencies are looking at) but that does not mean it's benefiting the target audience...the student.

Yes some shops do better than others, but that may be due to the fact that they recognize that the minimums are not enough and go beyond, and again this is what I was trying to address; increases to the minimums so that all new divers get the same above average level of training.

The LDS (a PADI shop) that I have had the pleasure of working with "goes beyond" the norm with regards to the free use of equipment, pools, access to DMs, etc and I am taking advantage of their generous offering. What I'm talking about is raising the bar with regards to the baseline. My posts are not agency specific, but refer to training standards accross the board.

 

[ChrisSoutherly]

I'll say first that I have not read all the posts in this thread but enough I think to get the gist of the "arguments" The bottom line with dive training today is the simplification or "dumbing down" if you will of the education process, by all agencies. All diver know, or they should, that you use your air faster the deeper you go. How many divers can tell you which gas law gives you the principle behind this fact? Does it matter when you are diving if you know the proper name of the gas law or just the concept? ... Probably not. I have worked with and dived with divers and instructors from many training agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI, YMCA, IANTD) and have seen good and bad from all of them. If you actually read the RSTC standards for open water they are pretty basic and generic. The quality of instruction lies with the quality and commitment of the individual instructors. People may chastise PADI for their commercial and marketing approach, and the idea that they nickel and dime, or $10 and $20, their students and instructors to excess, but they have put a lot of R&D into the teaching materials and methods. It is interesting to see that most agencies have emulated in some fashion the modular design, and teaching tool developed first by PADI. And for instructors, the redundancy of material covered and standards for paperwork and documentation, make sure they are covered legally. I ask you how does it make sense, even in today's litigious society that a diver certified for years with a few hundred dives can have an accident and come back and sue their initial open water instructor for negligence, saying they didn't get proper training and that caused their accident?

OK off the stuffing box ...

 

[careerdiver]

So what you are saying is you learned how to control your bouyancy sitting in the classroom? I am a PADI Instructor and we do classroom work to make sure the people understand the concepts and safety of diving. The actual learning takes place in the pool and in the open water.

 

[ScubyDoo]

I ask you how does it make sense, even in today's litigious society that a diver certified for years with a few hundred dives can have an accident and come back and sue their initial open water instructor for negligence, saying they didn't get proper training and that caused their accident?

Well the simple answer to that is..It doesnt make sense. This is why PADI works very hard to train its Instructors, Assistant Instructors, and Divemasters to always follow PADI standards when training students. They do so for two reasons. 1) Always following standards produces better trained divers, and 2) following standards helps protect PADI professionals from litigation. If a diver with 200 logged dives attempts to sue his instructor from 5 years ago, the burden of proof is upon the diver to show how his instructor is liable. His student records are kept on file, which should show that all PADI standards were met in his instruction. In addition to that, the diver should have filled out and signed both a "Liability Release and Assumption of Risk" form, and a "Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding" form, before any dive in which he was injured. The Liability Release form shifts legal responsibility for any accidents to the participant, as does the Safe Diving Practices Statement. Providing these forms to all divers is a PADI standard. This does not mean however that a divemaster or instructor cannot be held liable. If a divemaster or instructor fails to use good judgement or fails to adhere to conservative diving practices...they may very well be held liable. PADI works very hard however to instill in its professionals the need to follow all standards and practices. At least the LDS Im associated with does.

 

[MikeFerrara]

More PADI bashing. Does it ever end? I cant speak for all LDS that provide instruction, but I can certainly speak for mine (which is PADI). They bend over backwards to make sure that every single student is not only properly trained, but trained well enough to embarrass most other divers. The PADI training system is top notch. Can it be applied poorly....sure it can. So can every other agency training standard. Its not the training standards that are to fault, it is the instructors or LDS who teach/apply them. PADI has a system in place to weed out Instructors who fail to follow standards, and if necessary revoke thier Instructor rating.

I'm going to call you on this. Can you explain in what way PADI training is top notch? In this thread and others I listed specific points that I see as faults in the standards, could you address those? I think the weak points in the standards are blatantly demonstratable yet you state their "top notch" with no support at all.

I honestly think that non-PADI divers are just jealous because PADI has developed a very successful marketing campaign which is slowly driving other certifying agencies out of business. It reminds me of all the people who hate Wal-Mart.

I'm going to call you on this too. I was partly trained by PADI instructors and I was a PADI instructor. That's what my conclusions about the effectiveness of their training standards are based on. I also have certifications from IANTD, NACD and TDI. You think I'm jealous? Really?

 

[Zippsy]

Perhaps what ScubyDoo meant to say was that PADI has top notch training in regards to training ordinary people how to dive safely and effectively. You're right though; they don't train them to be as perfect as your other agencies must have made you.

Then again, would you criticize every Pop Warner, high school or college coach that doesn't make every football player an immediate Peyton Manning? Woops, I forgot he's not perfect either.