PADI Enriched Air Certification.... a little fishy.

[tracydr]

I didn't find that the PADI EANx course covered any diving techniques in a practical manner. I would have thought it appropriate to do practical toxing diver rescues as the material is covered in a didactic fashion, but seeing as neither the NAUI or PADI nitrox courses have any practical component, I really see no reason not to learn it from Google if you're able. I would not say the same thing for anything with a practical component (OW, RQ, etc)

I don't think you learn toxing diver rescues in GUE until TECH 1. And they teach Nitrox in their Fundies class, too. At least 32% anyway. I haven't taken Fundies, yet but I've been reading stuff to hopefully prepare for it.

My PADI nitrox class taught tables and calculations. I took it in 2007. I'm not sure if I had an older book. My husband taught my class and I was the only student for that particular class. I took OW in 1994 so a long time between the two. We dove nitrox for a bunch of dives for the two certifications. Long,long story why I didn't have Advanced, Nitrox or Rescue back in the 90s.
I felt the book, test and knowledge reviews were very good but my husband is a very tough teacher. He teaches statistics at a PhD level and he's an engineer. He expects all the knowledge reviews to be completely filled out, the book to be completely read before class starts. The information in the book at the time wasn't bad but I do remember needing quite a bit of help with tables and calculations. PADI books are terrible at explaining even the simplest math. I'm pretty decent at math but PADI is not. ( for instance, in the Encyclopedia, they mix metric and Imperial in the same math examples all over the place, drives me insane!)

 

[drrich2]

I know they can. Another example, you've got 34% for your 100 foot dive and the destination gets changed on the boat to a wreck at 115 feet. Can you do the dive? If a diver understands what's actually going on, he/she can avoid a problem instead of waiting for their computer to start flashing/beeping at them.

Interesting point. I wonder how many computers display the MOD when you input the mix? That'd be quicker & get the job done.

Richard.

 

[gcarter]

Interesting point. I wonder how many computers display the MOD when you input the mix? That'd be quicker & get the job done.

Richard.

Print this table and put it in your log book and it doesn't matter if you remember the calcs or what your computer does. For the average rec diver, most people here are overthinking this IMHO.

Can you do the dive? Check the table. What is the right mix for the dive? Check the table.

Too easy.

	MOD (Imperial)	MOD (Metric)
	PPO2	PPO2
FO2	1.4	1.6	1.4	1.6
21%	187	218	57	66
22%	177	207	54	63
23%	168	197	51	60
24%	160	187	48	57
25%	152	178	46	54
26%	145	170	44	52
27%	138	163	42	49
28%	132	156	40	47
29%	126	149	38	45
30%	121	143	37	43
31%	116	137	35	42
32%	111	132	34	40
33%	107	127	32	38
34%	103	122	31	37
35%	99	118	30	36
36%	95	114	29	34
37%	92	110	28	33
38%	89	106	27	32
39%	85	102	26	31
40%	83	99	25	30

 

[billgraham]

Print this table and put it in your log book and it doesn't matter if you remember the calcs or what your computer does. For the average rec diver, most people here are overthinking this IMHO.

Can you do the dive? Check the table. What is the right mix for the dive? Check the table.

Too easy.

	MOD (Imperial)	MOD (Metric)
	PPO2	PPO2
FO2	1.4	1.6	1.4	1.6
21%	187	218	57	66
22%	177	207	54	63
23%	168	197	51	60
24%	160	187	48	57
25%	152	178	46	54
26%	145	170	44	52
27%	138	163	42	49
28%	132	156	40	47
29%	126	149	38	45
30%	121	143	37	43
31%	116	137	35	42
32%	111	132	34	40
33%	107	127	32	38
34%	103	122	31	37
35%	99	118	30	36
36%	95	114	29	34
37%	92	110	28	33
38%	89	106	27	32
39%	85	102	26	31
40%	83	99	25	30

You could do that but then you're relying on having the table available when you need it. I could keep coming up with scenarios where it's easier to just know the math but I think I've made my point.

 

[drrich2]

BillGraham:

How many divers, especially the vacation divers, would actually remember the math reliably if they learned it in the first place? Especially since most would rarely use it?

Richard.

 

[billgraham]

Fine, don't teach it or try to learn it. Just don't expect that they will be capable of making informed decisions about diving mixed gasses.

In the scenario above, someone says "oh it's only 15 feet deeper, just stay off the bottom", the diver splashes, has bad bouyancy control and is on the bottom swimming at 1.5 something while their computer beeps away and they flirt with toxing.

 

[gcarter]

Fine, don't teach it or try to learn it. Just don't expect that they will be capable of making informed decisions about diving mixed gasses.

In the scenario above, someone says "oh it's only 15 feet deeper, just stay off the bottom", the diver splashes, has bad bouyancy control and is on the bottom swimming at 1.5 something while their computer beeps away and they flirt with toxing.

I don't think that is what I am saying. I learned the math. I understand the risks and take them seriously. The majority of my diving will be done using EAN32 or air. I am not expecting to do much if any with other mixes.

Math is something you use or lose. So I printed the formulas and added to my log book. Along with a table - for simplicity. 99% of the time it will suffice. If I don't have my book with me that 1% of the time when I need it, I can thumb my dive.

Not remembering the formulas is not exactly a one way ticket to spend eternity with Davey Jones. Nor is not being adept at doing math in your head.

The level of complexity need not be greater than warranted by the type of diving being done.

When I suggest that this is being over thought, I am in no way suggesting that there is no requirement to be capable of making informed decisions.

And someone who ignores the warnings given by their computer has bigger issues. They are going to be doing Darwin sooner or later anyway - even if they CAN do the math.

 

[CaveMD]

BillGraham:

How many divers, especially the vacation divers, would actually remember the math reliably if they learned it in the first place? Especially since most would rarely use it?

Richard.

They shouldn't be diving if they are that careless. IMO we have way to many people diving today that have no business diving.


Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[weitodive]

You can say that about anything. There are too many people having kids who have no business having them. There are too many people driving who shouldn't be. Hate to say it like this but at least in diving they should only hurt themselves. Instructors can only do so much. I taught a nitrox class with tables and I hope they remember what we did and take the time to review before they dive on nitrox. What can I do to them if they don't? Nothing. If we limited people to only what others feel they can "handle" then we might never have had diving.

 

[drrich2]

CaveMD:

By that logic, anybody with a nitrox cert. who doesn't remember the mathematical formulas from the course, even years later, is unfit to dive.

Yet the large majority of nitrox cert. holders who dive probably fit that category, have enjoyable recreational diving hobbies, and no substantial problems for it.

So, why shouldn't they dive? What's careless about not bothering with something the overwhelming majority don't need the overwhelming majority of the time, when a table listing or your dive computer can tell you the MOD for a mix anyway?

Richard.