PADI eBusiness - Atomic Online - 800 Pound Gorilla in the Room

[cerich]

Wouldn't NAUI be the second largest?

Yup.

SSI is anti-Inernet and also anti-independant Instructor.

Regarding growth, NAUI, SSI and SDI are all growing (I'm honestly not sure which has the most growth but that is the order of size behind PADI from what I know)

My understanding is PADI has been down in certs this year for the first time in decades.

 

[RJP]

As I said in my first post in this thread, online education is my profession. I have been designing and teaching online classes, first as a very small part of my life and later as my full time job, for 12 years.

But I am out of my league here. The number of people who know so much more about the concept than I is overwhelming, and I must humbly withdraw from the field.

Don't get confused by the word education here. This isn't about education; online or offline.

I think the point here is that from a "what's the business" standpoint this is NOT online education. This is online distribution of materials in an industry that has to date had the delivery of these items inexorably tied to in-person instruction at a physical location for the SOLE PURPOSE of driving the sale of lots of dive gear at that physical location. (Not saying that's the right model, or that's what the model will need to be going forward. But it is the current reallity.)

In education "learning" is the product that the industry sells. If that's the case, online delivery is fine. Here, however, dive gear is the product.

 

[jaycanwk]

Given this current trend toward internet commerce and E-learnig I think it might be more ideal for the LDS to get out of the retailing of equipment all togeather, as hinted at in some of the earlier posts. In essence, the LDS becomes JOES DIVE TRAING & EQUIPMENT SEVICE CENTER, where all they do is training, equipment maintainence and air fills and charge fair market value for that. this would be ideal beacuse they could have a staff of quality instructors teaching quality courses and a satff of sepcialized technitions that will service all makes of scuba gear with with full warrenty athourization. That would leave scuba equipment a sales to be sold through any of the other reatail channels ie internet, big box, etc. It would be common to see scuba eqip at your local sporting good store or Sams club for example. This way when you take a course at Joe's Training Centre, they can give quality, impartial advice on what equipment to buy because they would not be selling it. The final result would be equipment would be much cheaper, yet this would be offset somewhat by more expensive courses and air fills but the instruction would be of better quality. I think this situation would be more ideal though.

 

[Thalassamania]

Then PADI will phase in a whole lot of cheap labour to do the job instead.

That’s what I expect will happen. There is also no way to "monitor or control" instructor quality. You can go a small way toward that from audits but again it is not fail proof.[/quote]Acutaly on-line learning may provide for better monitoring than the current “system.”

As I said in my first post in this thread, online education is my profession. I have been designing and teaching online classes, first as a very small part of my life and later as my full time job, for 12 years.

But I am out of my league here. The number of people who know so much more about the concept than I is overwhelming, and I must humbly withdraw from the field.

John, no one is disparaging you expertise or skills, or saying that e-learning is not a viable system. Training right now is, IMHO, rather poor. If I thought that this shift could be used to raise the standard of training I’d jump on it. But the failure to raise training quality will not be the result of a failure in the medium, or in the technique, but rather in the purpose that it is used for, reducing instruction costs.

Given this current trend toward internet commerce and E-learnig I think it might be more ideal for the LDS to get out of the retailing of equipment all togeather, as hinted at in some of the earlier posts. In essence, the LDS becomes JOES DIVE TRAING & EQUIPMENT SEVICE CENTER, where all they do is training, equipment maintainence and air fills and charge fair market value for that. this would be ideal beacuse they could have a staff of quality instructors teaching quality courses and a satff of sepcialized technitions that will service all makes of scuba gear with with full warrenty athourization. That would leave scuba equipment a sales to be sold through any of the other reatail channels ie internet, big box, etc. It would be common to see scuba eqip at your local sporting good store or Sams club for example. This way when you take a course at Joe's Training Centre, they can give quality, impartial advice on what equipment to buy because they would not be selling it. The final result would be equipment would be much cheaper, yet this would be offset somewhat by more expensive courses and air fills but the instruction would be of better quality. I think this situation would be more ideal though.

As I suggested earlier, move to a private for profit Dive Club model, not JOES DIVE TRAING & EQUIPMENT SEVICE CENTER, but rather the SOUTH OF NORTH UNDERWATER EXPERIENCE CLUB, with all the items you spec, plus travel, maybe a dive boat, a training tank, a place to hang out (lounge), and a members’ only forum on SCUBABOARD!

 

[jaycanwk]

As I suggested earlier, move to a private for profit Dive Club model, not JOES DIVE TRAING & EQUIPMENT SEVICE CENTER, but rather the SOUTH OF NORTH UNDERWATER EXPERIENCE CLUB, with all the items you spec, plus travel, maybe a dive boat, a training tank, a place to hang out (lounge), and a members’ only forum on SCUBABOARD!

EXACTLY !!! There are many exciting new possibilities for this changing business model. So for eaxmple you would have South OF North Underwater Experience Club and ScubaToys.com might drop thier instruction end of the business and instead work to expand there retail to a point that would rival LesurePro. They could have brick and mortar franchise for "touch & feel" and local delivery/warranty service, etc. from the online generated sales, like FutureShop and other reatilers that have brick&motar + online.

 

[Ron Brandt]

Money. Who do you think is going to be teaching these e-learning sessions? Do you think it will be the LDS instructors? Maybe the part time instructors that work for the shop will teach online during their day job instead of surfing Scubaboard and The Deco Stop?
My understanding, which comes from information from my local PADI Rep about a year and a half ago when they were first coming up with the idea, was that PADI will be teaching these e-learning sessions, not a local instructor or LDS. They are not going to employ thousands of instructors to sit in a windowless cubicle all day to teach basic classroom work.
My guess is that they may initially start with a couple of thousand PADI Instructors who will one day sit up and think "Hey I didnt pay $7 grand to become an instructor and sit in a windowless cubicle with my highlight of the day being spent around the watercooler discussing who shagged who last night. I became an instructor to work in the sun, enjoy hands on teaching, diving and shagg hot chicks, not talk about it!
Then PADI will phase in a whole lot of cheap labour to do the job instead.
Well thats my view

I like the idea of online instruction. Up here it's friggin cold right now. The thought of "moderating" an online course is appealing. My dive operation is pretty bare bones as it stands right now and suit the model(in theory). I would welcome Elearning sessions as it would cut down on required classroom space.

Up here to teach in the warm sun is rare. Right now current temp 37F. The water is frozen.Some pools are shutdown for maintenance...I have my own indoor pool so don't have to worry.
I became an instructor to teach,regardless of the delivery.

My online store is active but not fully up to speed right now....getting there though..... it will also be used as the pos.

Fun in the sun is nice,but not much of a reality here.


Someone had mentioned running a shop like a club.....I stated that many years back on here and envisioned the day when gear would be back in department stores like it was in the beginning.

Ron

 

[PhilEllis]

Wow, the exploding thread.............

I just read through all of the posts since I was last on. I think MANY people are jumping way beyond what PADI might develop, and as a result adding confusion to a very clear subject.

First, there will be nobody from PADI "teaching" the on-line courses. Remember, YOU CANNOT TEACH SCUBA ONLINE! When a person surfs over to the PADI website with some interest in scuba diving, PADI will give them a chance to "Start Now" by clicking a button. That person will then put a "product" (the online academic materials) in their shopping cart. During the checkout process, they will be presented with an opportunity to choose a local dive center for their training. I don't know how this will be presented to them, but choosing a dive center goes hand in hand with being able to sign up for the online academic training. PADI will immediately notify the dive center that Jane Doe has signed up for a class and the dive center will be provided with all of the contact information for Jane Doe. The PADI website will also clearly inform Jane Doe that she needs to contact the dive center. From that very point, the dive center and Jane Doe begin a relationship, just like it happens now if Jane Doe walks into the dive center. The big difference..........Jane Doe signs up for a class NOW!....while she has enough interest in it to be surfing the web looking for "dive training". Under the old model, if Jane Doe was sitting at home thinking about going over to the local scuba store on her next day off to talk about dive training, she could be easily distracted by a billboard advertising Sky Diving lessons, by an ad for Paint Ball, or many other activities. In short, she may be distracted before she ever gets over to the dive store. With the PADI program, she will sign up on "impulse", with little chance that she is "lost" to other pursuits.

Second, some portion of the people that sign up for the PADI e-Learning program will never follow through. That happens now and it will continue to happen. However, if they sign up for the academic portion through PADI, they still must identify a dive center, that dive center will get the profit from the e-Learning sale, and will have the name and address of a person that was at least interested enough to spend some money and sign up. Diligent follow-up may eventually bring them around.

Third, e-Learning is still just a souped up delivery of training materials. There will be no instructor from India, no "several hundred PADI dive instructors in cubicles", nothing like that. The customer doesn't need any help reading the materials online and taking the quizzies, not any more than they need help reading the textbook. If help is needed, who will Jane Doe call? The LOCAL DIVE CENTER she was forced to choose when she purchased the program. Plain and simple.

Let's not make this something its not. This is a GREAT DEAL (in my opinion) for PADI, the local dive center, the industry, and the student.

Phil Ellis

 

[Swan1172]

Phil,

Thanks for the clarification. That is pretty much what I assumed it would be. The only thing that is really happening is a shift in the medium of delivery for the "at-home" portion of the class. It used to be books, now it will be online. No big deal for most people.

Unlike most of the others posting on here, I have actual, real-life experience with PADI's online class offerings, as I completed the online NITROX program when it was being offered. I thought it was comparable to the class which I later took so I could go higher than EANx32. To me, there was no difference in the materials except that you had to complete all of the learning assessments in the online class before you could print a certificate to take with you for the hands-on portion of the class. This was a lot better than what I experienced in the classroom version of the NITROX program, as the two other people in the class showed up with nothing completed which caused the instructor to spend time explaining concepts that they should have understood before they came to class.

 

[Thalassamania]

Let's not make this something its not. This is a GREAT DEAL (in my opinion) for PADI, the local dive center, the industry, and the student.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that the will be a GREAT DEAL for PADI, I don't know about the rest of your conclusions. It's like the old "what's good for General Motors must be good for America" ... WRONG. What's good for PADI must be good for diving ... WRONG.

 

[boulderjohn]

My earlier response was similar to Phil's--I just didn't have the energy last night to respond.

What I see happening in this thread is exactly what I see in the education-related world as a whole when the subject of online education is introduced. People make wild assumptions about the way it must be. They place limitations on it that do not in fact exist. They assume flaws that don't exist. They assert these misconceptions as if they were absolute and incontrovertible facts. Someone else picks up on one and spirals to a new misconception. Eventually we have a giant snowball of misconceptions rolling down the hill to crush us all. It was all too much for me.

I think this thread would be much better off if people who don't know what online education is like and who have concerns would ask questions about the things they don't know about rather than shout out a bold assertion of how it must be and why it is wrong.