PADI Divemaster 800m snorkel

[NW Dive Dawg]

So here is a real life experience a friend of mine had on the Spiegel Grove in Florida.

They had finished their dives and were packing up their gear when the DM on their boat started shouting. He was yelling to the crew of another nearby boat and to their passenger, who was struggling to get to the boat on the surface after his dive. He had not properly inflated his BCD. The DM tried to get him to inflate the BCD, and he tried to get the other boat's crew to pay attention. Neither paid any attention to him.

Finally, he pulled on his own fins, mask and snorkel, jumped in, and swam rapidly toward the struggling diver. The diver sank below the water before he got there. The DM got to the spot and dived down, by his estimate catching the rapidly sinking diver at about 20 feet down. He pulled him to the surface and got him to his boat, where CPR miraculously revived him.

That's why you need to be able to do that sort of thing.

Good story and lesson John..... I sure hope that the DM rescuer and anyone else observing was also yelling at the distressed diver to ditch his weights.......... and put his frigg'n reg in!

 

[dmaziuk]

What is the requirement for the turn? competition turn, grab the end and start the other way without touching the bottom, reach the end stand and turn and keep going?

I hear some instructors require that the student does not touch the wall at all. For all we know, the requirement may be the helicopter turn within a foot but no more than two, of the wall, and no touching.

 

[boulderjohn]

I hear some instructors require that the student does not touch the wall at all. For all we know, the requirement may be the helicopter turn within a foot but no more than two, of the wall, and no touching.

Which would be silly.

The fastest way to do it would be to swim the whole thing in a straight line, which you can't do because you don't have a big enough pool. The turns are going to make your time slower than ideal, whether you push off or not. Adding a requirement that is not in the standards to make it even slower than a simple touch and turn is nonsensical, and if a student were to fail to meet the standard time because of that requirement added by the instructor, it would be a violation of standards. You cannot fail a student because you added your own requirement to the actual standards.

 

[dmaziuk]

Which would be silly.

The fastest way to do it would be to swim the whole thing in a straight line, which you can't do because you don't have a big enough pool. The turns are going to make your time slower than ideal, whether you push off or not.

Speaking of silly, normally the push gives you way more speed than the swim. With flip turns and in a short enough pool you may be able to beat the "straight line" time... provided vertigo doesn't do you in first.

 

[tursiops]

Speaking of silly, normally the push gives you way more speed than the swim. With flip turns and in a short enough pool you may be able to beat the "straight line" time... provided vertigo doesn't do you in first.

Apparently you keep forgetting this is not a swimming contest....it is a scuba swim with required mask and fins and snorkel. No stopping. The standards do not overtly disallow a push-off, but they do not say whether they are OK either. You can pontificate off-topic as much as you want, but it is the word of the instructor administering the test that counts. In my experience, the usual approach is to swim to the end, turn, and swim back. Repeat. The turn is within the lane, so you are swimming a long narrow rectangle.It is not hard to do, and it is rarely failed.

 

[TMHeimer]

I have read that these snorkel 800 (and swim 400) tests can be done in open water as well, thus no turns (and a faster time unless waves/current). Seems from what I read here there is a grey area regarding wall push-offs and turns. It would seem this would be quite easy for agencies to just spell out the exact rules, no?

 

[Redtwo]

I think it's being overcomplicated. The idea is that People show that they are capable in the water. I don't think it will be a matter of seconds being won or lost here or there.

If your pushing for 1's or 2's across the board than i think there is a more fundamental problem. An average 3 with the almost free 5 in the water treading and short tow (where getting a 3 really isn't difficult) is not that hard.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Back in 1998 when we made our first visit to Bonaire, a buddy and I swam from Buddys over to Klein and back and it felt like it took about 20 - 25 min each way. I never actually measured the distance until today using Google maps and it looks to be right at about 1200 meters each way. We wore 3mm suits, open heel fins, booties, mask and snorkel. No weights. Seemed easy at the time but I was also a lot younger.........and some of the 2400 meters was done on our backs.

Then just this past May, we went back to Bonaire and took the SDI Solo course that required a 200M open water surface swim in full gear and that felt like it took about 5 minutes or less..

Point is...... I don't feel that either of those swims are a true qualifier or accurate assessment of Dive Mastering skill if the majority of the actual intended DM duties will be performed in a completely different environment and utilizing different gear. I'd personally like to see agencies require that these swim skills are performed in open water that is similar to the environment they will actually be working in.......and using the same gear that they would typically be using in that environment.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'd personally like to see agencies require that these swim skills are performed in open water that is similar to the environment they will actually be working in.......and using the same gear that they would typically be using in that environment.

While that certainly makes sense, that can be a real challenge. There are many environments in which a DM can work, and how can we accurately predict which will happen? When I got my DM certification, my immediate goal was to work as an assistant to local instruction, which means mostly swimming pools and fresh water lakes. I did not intend to be an on-the-boat DM in South Florida or a guide for dives off Java. I did not learn to hot drop on wrecks lulling down the line for a mooring ball, the primary job for DMs in South Florida. No DM training anywhere could prepare a DM for all possible conditions of employment.

When a DM is hired to do a DM's work, it is the employer's job to make sure that the DM has the necessary skills for local practices. I have been on several dives in which a certified DM was learning the skills required for local expectations and conditions.

That happens in most professions. The new employee goes through a training period to learn the skills specific to the new job.

 

[dmaziuk]

Realistically, if you can even see someone in the chop from 800 m away, if they're really in trouble, snorkeling there in 20 minutes is likely futile anyway. There's a reason IronMen do this instead of snorkeling: