PADI Deep Diver course- gas management

[johndiver999]

I'll do it for you.

Deep Dive OnePerformance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive One, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Plan and manage gas use, including determining turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure. Establish no stop and dive time limits.
2.Descend using a line, wall or sloping bottom.
3.Compare changes in color at the surface and at depth.
4.Compare a dive computer (or depth gauge) reading to another diver’sdepth reading.5.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (ordepth gauge and timing device).
6.Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes.

1, 2, 5, & 6 are all out of open water. 3 & 4, no skills involved

Deep Dive Two
Performance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive Two, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Execute a free descent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
2.Describe and record the changes that occur to three pressure-sensitive items while atdepth.
3.Perform a navigation swim with a compass away from, and back to, the anchor or thereference line. (One diver navigates away from, the other navigates back to, the referenceline for a distance of between 10 and 20 kick cycles, depending on visibility.)
4.Perform an ascent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
5.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a divecomputer (or depth gauge and timing device).
6.Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes without physicallyholding on to a reference line for positioning

1, 3, 4, 5, 6 are all out of open water. No skills involved with 2.

Deep Dive Three
Performance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive Three, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
2.Compare the amount of time needed to complete a task on the surface and at depth.
3.Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
4.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (ordepth gauge and timing device).
5.Perform an eight-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 5 metres/15 feetbefore surfacing, while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute of the total time

1, 3, 4 are out of open water. While 2 is supposed to indicate narcosis, there is no industry or even PADI standard way of doing it. Many people can do math problems at the same speed. 5 is basically out of open water, just extending the time.

Deep Dive Four
Performance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive Four, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
2.Complete an underwater tour of the area.
3.Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
4.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (ordepth gauge and timing device).
5.Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes.

All of these are open water.

I love these discussions where we get into the details and show what little value there is in con ed.

Not that I am well versed in training requirements, but I find it interesting that the diver is not required to descend or ascend without a visual or tactile guide.

Think how terrified a (certified deep diver) might be if they get off the wreck and get lost and have to ascend in the open water in a somewhat emergency situation, when they have never been trained for it or practiced in a class under supervision?

And for that matter, they don't have to do a descent either? These are essential skills for pretty basic dives we do locally. I wouldn't dive with someone (outside of the kiddie pool) if I was not reasonably confident they could do these skills.

Gradient factors and all that stuff?? I never learned that, tried to familiarize myself with it by reading on the internet, but it is completely inconsequential compared to being able to ascend and descend "on your own".

 

[tursiops]

I'll do it for you.

Deep Dive OnePerformance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive One, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Plan and manage gas use, including determining turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure. Establish no stop and dive time limits.
2.Descend using a line, wall or sloping bottom.
3.Compare changes in color at the surface and at depth.
4.Compare a dive computer (or depth gauge) reading to another diver’sdepth reading.5.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (ordepth gauge and timing device).
6.Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes.

1, 2, 5, & 6 are all out of open water. 3 & 4, no skills involved

Deep Dive Two
Performance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive Two, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Execute a free descent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
2.Describe and record the changes that occur to three pressure-sensitive items while atdepth.
3.Perform a navigation swim with a compass away from, and back to, the anchor or thereference line. (One diver navigates away from, the other navigates back to, the referenceline for a distance of between 10 and 20 kick cycles, depending on visibility.)
4.Perform an ascent using a reference line, wall or sloping bottom as a visual guide only.
5.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a divecomputer (or depth gauge and timing device).
6.Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes without physicallyholding on to a reference line for positioning

1, 3, 4, 5, 6 are all out of open water. No skills involved with 2.

Deep Dive Three
Performance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive Three, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
2.Compare the amount of time needed to complete a task on the surface and at depth.
3.Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
4.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (ordepth gauge and timing device).
5.Perform an eight-minute simulated emergency decompression stop at 5 metres/15 feetbefore surfacing, while breathing from an emergency air source for at least one minute of the total time

1, 3, 4 are out of open water. While 2 is supposed to indicate narcosis, there is no industry or even PADI standard way of doing it. Many people can do math problems at the same speed. 5 is basically out of open water, just extending the time.

Deep Dive Four
Performance Objectives
By the end of Deep Dive Four, student divers should be able to, with a buddy and withinstructor guidance as appropriate:
1.Execute a descent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
2.Complete an underwater tour of the area.
3.Perform an ascent using a reference as a tactile or visual guide (line, wall or slopingbottom).
4.Ascend at a rate not to exceed 18 metres/60 feet per minute using a dive computer (ordepth gauge and timing device).
5.Make a safety stop at 5 metres/15 feet for at least three minutes.

All of these are open water.

I love these discussions where we get into the details and show what little value there is in con ed.

That doesn't seem very valuable just in general


Interesting that this is the acceptable ascent rate for the class.

What gradient factors or decompression algorithms are prescribed for the class?

How does PADI mitigate the risks that come from breathing a gas that is at the maximum limit of 6.2g/l recommended by the work of Anthony and Mitchell?

View attachment 856020

Not that I am well versed in training requirements, but I find it interesting that the diver is not required to descend or ascend without a visual or tactile guide.

Think how terrified a (certified deep diver) might be if they get off the wreck and get lost and have to ascend in the open water in a somewhat emergency situation, when they have never been trained for it or practiced in a class under supervision?

And for that matter, they don't have to do a descent either? These are essential skills for pretty basic dives we do locally. I wouldn't dive with someone (outside of the kiddie pool) if I was not reasonably confident they could do these skills.

Gradient factors and all that stuff?? I never learned that, tried to familiarize myself with it by reading on the internet, but it is completely inconsequential compared to being able to ascend and descend "on your own".

As usual, Wetb4 leaves out some stuff, but life is too short to argue with him on-line. Enjoy the echo chamber. No matter what corrections I might provide, he'll find some way to twist it to suit his narrative.

 

[crofrog]

As usual, Wetb4 leaves out some stuff, but life is too short to argue with him on-line. Enjoy the echo chamber. No matter what corrections I might provide, he'll find some way to twist it to suit his narrative.

I’m serious I want to know what gf are prescribed for the course are they just left to the instructor?

How does padi reconcile the new gas density research with their practices.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

As usual, Wetb4 leaves out some stuff, but life is too short to argue with him on-line. Enjoy the echo chamber. No matter what corrections I might provide, he'll find some way to twist it to suit his narrative.

It would be nice if you would ever offer anything of value like corrections. I listed the performance requirements. That's what instructors have to teach to.

 

[tursiops]

I’m serious I want to know what gf are prescribed for the course are they just left to the instructor?

How does padi reconcile the new gas density research with their practices.

it is a recreational course. What you are talking about is in Tec Deep.

 

[tursiops]

That's what instructors have to teach to.

Another misrepresentation. They have to cover that material but can offer more if they want; they just can't demand the more for certification. You know that; why are you afraid to say it? Does it conflict with your narrative?

 

[crofrog]

it is a recreational course. What you are talking about is in Tec Deep.

Are there standards that dictate max bottom time, tables?

The gas density research applies regardless of it being a recreational class. If you’re accepting a 6.2g/l density in the recreational class is that consistent with the technical classes?

 

[tursiops]

Are there standards that dictate max bottom time, tables?

The RDP, your computer, nothing specific.

Are there standards that dictate max bottom time, tables?

The gas density research applies regardless of it being a recreational class. If you’re accepting a 6.2g/l density in the recreational class is that consistent with the technical classes?

If you're asking if He is required beyond 100 ft, no. Nor in TDI, et al. Just GUE, as far as I know.

 

[happy-diver]

Think how terrified a (certified deep diver) might be if they get off the wreck and get lost and have to ascend in the open water in a somewhat emergency situation, when they have never been trained for it or practiced in a class under supervision?

Think of how terrified they may not be

Excuse me for quoting you but this is not about you nor is it about me

My first open water no reference choppy ocean ascent was in 100metres from 55metres solo with a seal

and then some more seals

and I wasn't, using a dsmb

in a shipping channel

Look at the magnificent seals. They actually belong there where we go

With zero training past OW as I choose to learn from experience is where the real training experience begins


Of course we must do courses, and the longer we treat each other like children, the stoopider we all become

Because you don't teach for the people, you took your minds out a long time ago
You teach for yourselves, and teach for the lawyers of the companies you work for

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Another misrepresentation. They have to cover that material but can offer more if they want; they just can't demand the more for certification. You know that; why are you afraid to say it? Does it conflict with your narrative?

Doesn't conflict whatsoever. I showed what instructors need to teach. And it shows that it is a fluff course. The industry as a whole could provide a lot more value than what it does.