PADI Certification too quick?

[voop]

What is wrong with doing 84 quarry dives and 16 ocean dives? Are you trying to imply that people who have more dives in the ocean are better divers or would make better instructors?

If you've been diving in many different conditions, you're likely to have encountered more different problems and acquired more diverse experiences, than if you have done all your diving in your backyard mudhole.

However to me, it's not the ratio between quarry and ocean dives that worries me. It's the fact that 84+16 = Instructor....

 

[Mako Mark]

we were supposed to read the book before we came to class
Jeff

This is great, this means that you didnt have to sit in a stuffy classroom listening to some guy waffle on and on. You take charge of what, when and how you learn. Not have to wait around for slow students, or be rushed when you want to take your time.

Again I agree with other statements that have been said in the past and in other threads, it is the instructor that makes or breaks the class and in mine he was great.

Jeff

The instructor can make all the difference, I am glad you were pleased with yours.

Looking back I just don't see how the average person could take in all the information that is covered in the book,
Jeff

There is no such thing as an AVERAGE person, this is whythere can never be a single course format that is perfect for everyone. In fact the perfect course is one that has the flexibility to be adapted to the students needs.

Does PADI stipulate the minimum time needed for classroom and pool work for a OW class? I wonder that since I hear so many different lengths of classes from people on this board.
Jeff

PADI says that the open water course has a reccommended time of 31 hours, based on a class of 8.

Truth is some people take longer and need more practice, some find it quick and easy. Also, cold water naff quarry diving, or rough water north sea diving requires more time than pretty calm coral reef diving.

Jeff, Thanks for your fresh perspective, often we instructors on the board forget to ask what the new divers think.

 

[Hank49]

What is wrong with doing 84 quarry dives and 16 ocean dives? Are you trying to imply that people who have more dives in the ocean are better divers or would make better instructors?

It's just different types of diving. I have no idea how to use a dry suit, not to mention a low tolerance for cold and a strong love of good visibility... so quarry diving would be tough for me. On the other hand, a person with 200 dives in quarries only, may be screaming for his/her mama when experiencing a strong current at 30 plus meters depth, in blue water, drifting down a wall.
But in answer to the original question....I think the four day PADI OW course is good. It lays down the basic fundamentals and covers the basic technical aspects of diving. Then just dive. It's like flying a plane or learning a language. You can learn everything in an intensive course but if you don't use it, you begin to lose it. Hank

 

[plcmd]

I went with her on her checkout dives. As her husband I think she did really good. As a bystander I think she could have used some more pool time before the dives. She was very hesitant about flooding and removing her mask. There could have been a little more time spent on the navigation with the compass. I was however impressed with the dive tables. She did a wonderful job planning dives. I wish I could have picked up on the tables as quick as she did. By the end of the 4th dive she said her apprehension had subsided. Maybe it was a little to quick, but I think the students got what they needed out of the class. They learned the basics, saw a new environment, and had fun. I think we'll spend the next couple of weekends at Lake Mead and take the AOW. Thanks for all of your input. I really appreciate it.

 

[scuba_luv]

That being said, the more dive experience I get and the more I read the less I like the PADI program. On the one hand they do get people exposed to diving, however on the other hand I don't feel that they're of much use past that. They are good for whetting (sp?) ones appetite, but once the taste is acquired there isn't much substance left. After diving for a little while most of us will run into something that makes us say "hey... this is actually pretty dangerous!" and what PADI offers does not prepare you for those situations enough IMHO.

<snip>
I have no desire to instruct classes, however I would like to get more into technical diving in the relative future. EAN/Nitrox was what I thought to be the next logical step in that direction. Which agency offers the better class (as in course material and requirements for completion)?

I was looking at the Aquarena Springs (TX) Scientific Diver course. Two days and they focus on skills in the water. Seems like it would be nice if PADI or any of the cert agencies offered a Skills focus class. Yes, Rescue and Emergency is good to have, but I'd like more practice on the basics, and I'd like the opportunity to get really good at problem solving in a controlled situation.
Has anybody every proposed something like that kind of class to PADI or any of the other agencies.
BTW, I for one am not interested in becoming a Navy Seal , just getting to be as good as I can be.

 

[gkwaldee]

Ok, I guess this thread just wont die.

Personally, I think that the agencies should change the way people are trained anyway. To give someone the titel of "Advanced" after possibly no more than 10 dives is ridiculous. The cert structure is geared towards the dollar and not the training. Someone tell me how anyone could be considered a Master Scuba Diver after completing rescue, and 5 BS specialties. Or better yet, ya get someone with the time and the free cash to do it and they can be instructors less than a year after the very first time they got into the water.

In my opinion, the certs should look more like this:

OW, AOW, the first half of rescue, and certain "specialties"(boat and the like) combined to create the new OW

Nitrox, second half of rescue, any other couple of specialties (cave or wreck)=AOW

From there it would split into two areas, professional and technical

I also think that all divemasters should have at least deco procedure training (TDI cert?) We have divemasters on Guam that cant hover worth a damn.

There is still the divers responsibility to dive within their limits, but the agencies surely make it alittle too easy for a idiot to do something idiotic.

just my 2 cents

tiny bubbles

 

[scubaranger]

I've seen students on there OW check out dive swim laps around some divers that before the dive talk alot of trash but have not gone diving in several years. These divers some times get themselves in trouble. It all depends on the student and the instructor. I highly recomend a refresher or at least get your gear and jump in a pool.

Many times people get a crash course in a resort or vacation then don't dive for some time when they jump back in they get in trouble. I think this is a bigger problem. If you get certified and continue to dive your experience level grows and you get better in time. I for one know that I need so much more to learn but that all comes in time and know your limitations.

 

[chrisch]

Ok, I guess this thread just wont die.

In my opinion, the certs should look more like this:

OW, AOW, the first half of rescue, and certain "specialties"(boat and the like) combined to create the new OW

Nitrox, second half of rescue, any other couple of specialties (cave or wreck)=AOW

From there it would split into two areas, professional and technical...

tiny bubbles

This is more or less the BSAC system. Their terminology is Ocean Diver (your OW) and Sports Diver (your AOW) but without the EAN prerequisite (I agree with you on that as well).
BSAC are a big part of UK diving, but most new divers go to PADI because the BSAC system takes too long. (In fairness its a club and instructors are unpaid so do it when it suits them not when it suits the students).

So there you have it - the majority of newcomers want a quick way into diving. Not a long draw out course that makes them better divers......

As a PADI trained diver my main criticism is that many (not all) PADI outlets first give the impression you only need OW and then try to "sell" AOW during the course as part of the PADI continuing education. Students should be aware that OW is "diver in training" not certified diver.

Any idiot can learn to dive in half an hour. The next 20 years are spent learning what to do when something goes wrong.

Chris
PADI, IANTD & (one time)BSAC

 

[ygthad]

I am glad it went well for you guys. Have fun..

 

[midwest_matt]

My PADI OW water cert consisted of rougly 10 hours of classroom 8-9 hours in the pool spread across 3 days. 8-10 hours of classroom, across the same 3 days. The instructor went over the material in the book throughly and took time to explain further anything the students had questions on. My checkout dives were done the next weekend. Same instructor same quality instruction. And for a shameless plug: Micks Scuba Moorhead, MN was where I took my classes