PADI Certification too quick?

[alemaozinho]

Rightly or wrongly, PADI standards allow the class/pool session to be completed in two days. Open water dives require an additional two days. Hovering is not on the list of required skills.

Many, especially those who learned to dive in the old days, find ourselves aghast at the perceived shortcomings of the PADI program. We fear that new divers are being sent out into the world insuffiently prepared. Maybe with some cause, but remember that the objective of the open water class is to provide the basic skills needed to (a) safely and (b) enjoyably participate in scuba. The days when scuba classes were a proxy for SEAL training are long gone, thankfully.

PADI and the other CMAS training agencies are living up to their end of the bargain - only rarely do you find the bodies of newby divers washed up along the shoreline and the numbers of participants has gone through the roof in the past 30 years.

Training requirements are fine right where they are. New divers are reasonably safe (you weren't expecting perfection in this world, were you) and are having fun. They have a long way to go before they become proficent divers, but it's okay to let them crawl for awhile before insisting that they run a marathon.

what makes you think that cmas is going the same way as the other agencies (speed),it,s just the opposite,cmas does go truely a differend way as the other agencies and puts out qualified divers/vs some agencies certified divers.At the end it,s all at the hand of the Instructor,he,s judgeing the students performance and hands out the c card to the new diver.We also have to consider, that some people are with time restrictions (vacationeers)and do want the ow course as fast as possible,the learning curve starts after they,re certified and coordinations ascents/descents/ear-clearing,inflate/deflate and the comfort level sets in after about a dozen dives.To be reasonable ,any open water course should include at least 10 ow dives with differend scenarios (beach,boat ,drift,)ect. to be assured that the student gets a true understanding and skill performance mastery,but how much is the student willing to pay for his uw comfort and how much time that would consume,impossible!My ow class took me about twelve weeks with numerous classroom sessions,pool drills and the ow portion,we also had divers in the class who didnt make it,today almost everyone gets a c card. ?Agencies did split the section of the ow courses over the years and made three courses out of one : ow/aow/rescue .Money?Time?Yes!!Have fun diving and be safe!Peace

 

[outlawaggie]

PADI and the other CMAS training agencies are living up to their end of the bargain - only rarely do you find the bodies of newby divers washed up along the shoreline and the numbers of participants has gone through the roof in the past 30 years.

Training requirements are fine right where they are. New divers are reasonably safe (you weren't expecting perfection in this world, were you) and are having fun. They have a long way to go before they become proficent divers, but it's okay to let them crawl for awhile before insisting that they run a marathon.

As a relatively new diver i am amazed at the more experienced divers comments on this and similiar threads. As ReefRaff noted divers aren't drowing by the lemming load. Classes are intended to teach BASIC skills. It is not intended to teach you to be a perfect divers with perfectly honed skills. Most of us are adults. WE have a PERSONAL responsibility to know our limitations and shortcomings. I am not argueing that it is possible to run through the training and end up a DM although you have no business being one but that is more the fault of the indiviual than PADI, NAUI, SSI etc. Just my two cents.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As a relatively new diver i am amazed at the more experienced divers comments on this and similiar threads. As ReefRaff noted divers aren't drowing by the lemming load. Classes are intended to teach BASIC skills. It is not intended to teach you to be a perfect divers with perfectly honed skills. Most of us are adults. WE have a PERSONAL responsibility to know our limitations and shortcomings. I am not argueing that it is possible to run through the training and end up a DM although you have no business being one but that is more the fault of the indiviual than PADI, NAUI, SSI etc. Just my two cents.

so you're saying that the number of deaths is the only worthwhile measure of training quality?

I dived for years without certification but I didn't die.

 

[outlawaggie]

so you're saying that the number of deaths is the only worthwhile measure of training quality?

I dived for years without certification but I didn't die.

Of course not. I was simply saying that many on this and similiar threads want to thrash PADI/NAUI, etc for not doing their job yet it appears that they are. They provide the Basic skills what a diver does beyond that is thier individual responsibility.

In fact you accentuate my point that WE are responsible for ourselves. You dove without certification altogether but I would assume you did not just strap on a tank and drop to 200' in a ranging current of 30 degree water. Since you didn't die I would assume you did the responsible thing and learned a little before jumping in.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Of course not. I was simply saying that many on this and similiar threads want to thrash PADI/NAUI, etc for not doing their job yet it appears that they are. They provide the Basic skills what a diver does beyond that is thier individual responsibility.

After being a PADI instructor for a number of years I don't think they're doing their job at all and have absolutely no use for them or their standards.

They are not teaching basic dive skills. They teach people to do things kneeling on the bottom and many of the divers I see have trouble with the very most basic aspects of diving.

They don't get much better with practice because they don't have any basics to build on.

In fact you accentuate my point that WE are responsible for ourselves. You dove without certification altogether but I would assume you did not just strap on a tank and drop to 200' in a ranging current of 30 degree water. Since you didn't die I would assume you did the responsible thing and learned a little before jumping in.

Actually I was young and indestructable at the time. I just straped on some of my cousins gear, grabed a spear gun and jumped off the boat in about 30 ft of water. I got a little carried away with the whole thing and wondered off before he got in the water. I met him on my way back to the boat when my air got low. So really my first dive was a solo spearfishing dive.

People aren't getting killed because a healthy person who is comfortable in the water can crawl around the bottom all they want and they aren't likely to get hurt. That's not the same as knowing how to dive though.

I will say one thing. My cousin used to get upset when I silted things up so I learned not to which is more than many student divers get with a real instructor. I don't remember him having me kneel on the bottom ever. LOL

 

[chrisch]

Most of us are adults. WE have a PERSONAL responsibility to know our limitations and shortcomings.

Sadly - to the amusment of the rest of the world the US doesn't seem to understand this (no disrespect we are trying very hard to catch up...). We read (true or not) of examples like where a woman threw coffee at a McD burger flipper then slipped on it then sued the franchisee for a big wedge....

Hardly responsible.

It may not be true but it shapes thinking and the agencies are worried by liability (ever done an IANTD course?).

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but then I too am tempted to make a fast buck/pound/euro/yen whatever..

Chris

 

[outlawaggie]

Mike

I can respect your opinion. However, I would say that you make a gross generalization saying that they (as in all of PADI) doesn't teach basic skills. My instructor taught these skills. He went on to verify that we as students understood and could perform those skills. I just feel it is an insult to the good instructors and shops out there to say all PADI shops dont teach skills etc.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike

I can respect your opinion. However, I would say that you make a gross generalization saying that they (as in all of PADI) doesn't teach basic skills.

My statement are based on what the standards require.

My instructor taught these skills. He went on to verify that we as students understood and could perform those skills. I just feel it is an insult to the good instructors and shops out there to say all PADI shops dont teach skills etc.

There are instructors who teach a good class in spite of the fact the standards don't require it but I don't see many of them.

 

[outlawaggie]

Sadly - to the amusment of the rest of the world the US doesn't seem to understand this (no disrespect we are trying very hard to catch up...). We read (true or not) of examples like where a woman threw coffee at a McD burger flipper then slipped on it then sued the franchisee for a big wedge....

I agree wholeheartedly with you, but then I too am tempted to make a fast buck/pound/euro/yen whatever..

Chris

Chris,
Actually, 99% of America understands personal responsibility the trouble is that doesn't make good news so you only hear about the 1%

 

[Scuba_John]

Sound to me like the standards should be reread with emphysis in the number of trainging dive that can be done in a single day. I personally take my time and use as much as I need to feel good about the skills of the student. Even with a class count of one. I go over the manual in two nights and for sure pool time is the best place to watch students and the problems that they will have, also the best place to correct them.