PADI Certification too quick?

[Queen]

We did learn a lot about task loading and problem solving as i recall. At any time in the course your mask could get ripped off, your air turn off, you could be forced to buddy breathe, your fins could get ripped off, etc, with creative, multiple variations of all the above fair game at any time. No doubt, you failed the class if you couldn't deal with getting hassled underwater.

Were we in the same class?? :irazz:

I bet over half the people i have certified would not have made it through that 1979 course. I know some of you feel that is the way it should be. I don't agree. Some of those people who most likely would not have made it, are my best dive buddies today.

I think with proper care, todays mainstream standards can put out good apprentice OW divers. IMO, with proper care they are a much more rounded OW diver than i was in 1979.

That was the point I was trying to make earlier. There has to be room in the sport for people who want to try it out. It seems so many sports/activities end up being exclusive clubs where regardless of realistic training needs you have to jump through hoops to "join the club". I would rather see someone take the new class, see if they enjoy the sport, and learn more as they go along...I'm not sure how much I gained from having my air shut off every time I was doing an exercise...mostly I focused on how I was going to react rather than focusing on learning the new skill.

 

[Mako Mark]

.[/I][/INDENT]

Required in open water...

Ain't on the list of skills​

.

Open water dive 4 p 4-22 ow Digital Instructor Manual.

Performance requirement:
7. Achieve neutral buoyancy and hover underwater in midwater using
only buoyancy control and without swimming, sculling or using fins.

Reccomended techniques for meeting performance requirements:
6. Neutral buoyancy and hovering. Student divers perform this much as they do during the confined water dives. Ideally, do these near a line or other object they can use as a visual reference. Stay close enough to stop a student who begins to rise unaware or who is out of control. This exercise has no time limit because you’re looking for mastery. Some divers can immediately establish a controlled hover; others may need to warm up a bit before they establish a controlled hover.


Reefraff....................what part of this indicates you dont have to do a hover in ow? Your lack of familiarity with the instructor manual and theo ow course has put your comments in a questionable light........

 

[mstudley]

It used to be.

That's a change that's been made just in the last couple of years. I could get a date if some one was interested because I believe that it was changed after the printing of the standards I have so the change is written in by hand with a note indicating the quarter and year the change came in.

I didn't even know that they changed the CW requirement from a minute to 30 seconds though. That must be pretty new.

Next they'll use weighted boots so divers don't have to mess with a bc at all.

I am certified as AOW with PADI. I had the same instructor for both OW and AOW and I feel that he made all the difference in the course material.

That being said, the more dive experience I get and the more I read the less I like the PADI program. On the one hand they do get people exposed to diving, however on the other hand I don't feel that they're of much use past that. They are good for whetting (sp?) ones appetite, but once the taste is acquired there isn't much substance left. After diving for a little while most of us will run into something that makes us say "hey... this is actually pretty dangerous!" and what PADI offers does not prepare you for those situations enough IMHO.

Again, I realize that the instructor makes all the difference (as it did in my case) but if I were to choose a different agency to further my training do you/anyone have any suggestions as to which is "best"?

I have no desire to instruct classes, however I would like to get more into technical diving in the relative future. EAN/Nitrox was what I thought to be the next logical step in that direction. Which agency offers the better class (as in course material and requirements for completion)?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Open water dive 4 p 4-22 ow Digital Instructor Manual.

Performance requirement:
7. Achieve neutral buoyancy and hover underwater in midwater using
only buoyancy control and without swimming, sculling or using fins.

Reccomended techniques for meeting performance requirements:
6. Neutral buoyancy and hovering. Student divers perform this much as they do during the confined water dives. Ideally, do these near a line or other object they can use as a visual reference. Stay close enough to stop a student who begins to rise unaware or who is out of control. This exercise has no time limit because you’re looking for mastery. Some divers can immediately establish a controlled hover; others may need to warm up a bit before they establish a controlled hover.


Reefraff....................what part of this indicates you dont have to do a hover in ow? Your lack of familiarity with the instructor manual and theo ow course has put your comments in a questionable light........

Without a time or position requirement it seems as though just about anything could pass.

 

[MikeFerrara]

We didn't learn about trim or buoyancy control, we crawled around on the bottom because this PADI instructor was still using horse collar BC's. The horse collar wasn't there as a buoyancy compensator, it was there as an emergency surfacing device and/or a PFD for the surface. Anyone remember those cool CO2 cartridges?

Yes the most useful stuff hasn't been taken out of the course. It was never there in the first place.

The instructors who teach good technique and get there students to the point where they can control their position in midwater even while doing skills aren't going backward or doing it the old way. On the contrary they are moving forward. Once the industry has a nother decade or so to get used to bc's and SPG's and learn how to use them they may start teaching divers to use them also.

I think considering the equipment of the day, the hassling had its place. Horse collar BC's, non failsafe regulators (regulators that could just lock up & stop delivering air),

Which regs were those?

 

[TCDiver1]

Yes the most useful stuff hasn't been taken out of the course. It was never there in the first place.

The instructors who teach good technique and get there students to the point where they can control their position in midwater even while doing skills aren't going backward or doing it the old way. On the contrary they are moving forward. Once the industry has a nother decade or so to get used to bc's and SPG's and learn how to use them they may start teaching divers to use them also.

LOL ... agreed!

Which regs were those?

Couldn't tell you which ones exactly Mike. I know from experience that some of the older two stage regs were built so they could fail that way, non failsafe that is.

I'm talking regs manufactured 30+ years ago i would guess.

 

[Mako Mark]

Next they'll use weighted boots so divers don't have to mess with a bc at all.

Got it already mike, please note the use of the long hose tho. lol

and lets not get into a fight about the word MASTERED
again.

 

[tndiveinstruct1]

Required in open water...

Ain't on the list of skills​

Actually, it is required in the Open Water checkout dives in OW Dive 4. PADI Digital Instructor Manual, Open Water Instructor Manual, pg.124, Item #7:

"Achieve neutral buoyancy and hover underwater in midwater using only buoyancy control and without swimming, sculling or using fins."

Also right below that in the Recommended Techniques for Meeting Performance Requirements it states for neutral buoyancy and hovering:

" This exercise has no time limit because you're looking for mastery."

Randy Cain

 

[AevnsGrandpa]

Still being new (less than a year) and also low on the number of dives (<20), gives me somewhat of a fresh look on things.

As has been already stated and I agree, that would be to me way to fast for my OW class to go. My class was set up with 2 hours of book review and the tests over the chapters (we were supposed to read the book before we came to class) then on to 2 hours in the pool. There were 12 people in my OW class with a total of 4 instructors and a number of DM's and instructor canadates.

Again I agree with other statements that have been said in the past and in other threads, it is the instructor that makes or breaks the class and in mine he was great.

Looking back I just don't see how the average person could take in all the information that is covered in the book, not that it is rocket science but..., and then take that information and turn it into application by doing the various skills. Even with only 3 people in the class and 1 instructor, I don't see even 6 hours straight in the pool would be enough time for the instructor to demo it and then each student to do it for the instructor to see they can do it with some profiency.

Does PADI stipulate the minimum time needed for classroom and pool work for a OW class? I wonder that since I hear so many different lengths of classes from people on this board.

I would not want the class to go on for too long, but I want the instructor to take the needed time with each person so they know the skills and feel safe in doing them.

I would watch these factory processed divers very closely!!

Jeff

 

[cal2632]

I'm certainly glad I took my OW from a concientious LDS. I certified through PADI and we had 5 Sundays of classroom for 1 1/2 hours followed by 2 hours in the pool each week. Their 'fast track' class is only 2 weeks, but its 2 days each week. And we were told in our check-out dives that we WOULD demonstrate our hovering skills to the instructors satisfaction, or we WOULD NOT be certified. We practised skills kneeling, then in deep water, then again in deep water anytime the instructor decided she wanted to see it again. There's no way I would've been as comfortable in my quarry dives without taking that much time in the pool. I feel very lucky.

Mona