PADI Beyond Master Scuba Diver

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'm far from a PADI lover because of their business model, but to be fair it really boils down to the instructor. My two PADI certs are OW and Rescue and in both I had phenomenal instructors and learned a great deal. Obviously there's probably some bias for my first, but my Advanced certification from another agency I learned some but really felt like I was missing out. The difference? An enthusiastic and eager instructor wanting to share vs. a lazy one.

May I ask with under which agencies you've trained? Everyone knows I recommend GUE fundies or UTD Essentials. Fundies was a cold shower for me, and gave me additional tools for improving my teaching.

I do believe agency framework can play a large part. I say can, as not all instructors take advantage of their respective agencies' framework (example: SDI, NAUI both allow instructors to add skills/performance requirements/dives).

 

[tursiops]

I am a fan of PADI; is it perfect? No. Are they good at extracting money from divers? Yes. Am I a better diver with PADI training or without it? Better with PADI training and training materials that I review on a regular basis.

I teach at a university so I have some insight into the business of learning. I believe that the more one learns about diving, the better diver one can become. More training and more diving is what PADI advocates. Do I agree with PADI's content 100%? No, but overall, PADI provides a training product that is suitable for most divers, most of the time.

Will I work towards achieving all the stars? Probably not. Do I endorse the program? Yes.

GJS
PADI Divemaster

You are on target. More learning is better. For some, structured learning through classes is best; for others, they can learn some of it on their own, or perhaps choose not to improve except through trial and error and diving more. Diving more is good. Diving more and learning more is even better than just diving or just learning. PADI is trying to encourage that...and I do not begrudge them wanting to make some money on it. Those who denigrate someone making money need to find a way to get free air and free equipment and free boat rides too. Hey, if they want to dump all their hate on PADI, at least it gives them a goal in life. Hate on! Meanwhile, kit is nice to see someone try and find a way to offer the opportunity to folks to improve.

My problem with the program is the mix of specialties and dives to get the increasing number of stars. Too many specialties, too few dives. Most folks seem to home in on some aspect of diving that they especially like.....wrecks, marine life, photography, whatever. PADI does not offer 20, or 15, or 10, or even 5 specialties in any one of those interest areas. So it is hard for a student to follow their developing passions, or for an instructor to offer what is being requested. i'd like to see a '"continuing mentoring" aspect of the test program where (for example) five mentored wreck dives counts as a "point" for a wreck track, and you need a combination of specialties and points to progress.

 

[CT-Rich]

Sounds kind of like the Church of Scubatology. To attain each new level of enlightenment, you must pass through additional layers of training and self actualization, becoming a Scuba Thetan.... Buy the books, the E-meter, training....

 

[tursiops]

Sounds kind of like the Church of Scubatology. To attain each new level of enlightenment, you must pass through additional layers of training and self actualization, becoming a Scuba Thetan.... Buy the books, the E-meter, training....

Maybe it is not for you. I like cilantro, but I'm not going to tell you to eat it.

 

[Esprise Me]

I'm far from a PADI lover because of their business model, but to be fair it really boils down to the instructor. My two PADI certs are OW and Rescue and in both I had phenomenal instructors and learned a great deal. Obviously there's probably some bias for my first, but my Advanced certification from another agency I learned some but really felt like I was missing out. The difference? An enthusiastic and eager instructor wanting to share vs. a lazy one.

That's the thing, though; these certs don't involve any additional instruction. You get cert cards for each of the specialties, and then you can pay for another cert card that says you have X number of specialty certs.

 

[tursiops]

That's the thing, though; these certs don't involve any additional instruction. You get cert cards for each of the specialties, and then you can pay for another cert card that says you have X number of specialty certs.

Many instructors/shops will give away the MSD card to someone who does all five specialties with them. Same thing could happen here.

 

[CT-Rich]

Maybe it is not for you. I like cilantro, but I'm not going to tell you to eat it.

I don’t really have a problem with a program that encourages people to be active divers, but as has been pointed out, if take a particular path in diving, are they really going to have 20 certifications that make you a better X-type of diver? Will they actually make you a “5 star Master Diver”, or a competent generalist? Enough derision is heaped on the term Advanced Open Water” and that requires 10 dives. Someone with 150 dives including 30 or 40 class dives versus a diver who completed 100 dives and a Fundies course, who is likely to be the better trained?

I have nothing against collecting certs or paying instructors for their skills or the agency for writing the curricula or maintaining standards. That said, this is about better marketing, not better standards.

 

[TMHeimer]

To the OP's question--
It reads that you have heard nothing yourself right from PADI, correct?
Is it possible the dive op is incorrect about PADI wanting to "try out" this idea with just their shop? Ei., possibly they lied....?

As far as what I think of this idea, I don't know. I don't see any harm if someone wants to pay for like 20 certs., wants do do the tech. route, etc.
My 7 specialties are enough. As with the existing MDS program, I think all specialties that go toward MSD (or 5 star MSD) should be ones that improve either diver ability and/or safety. How many different specialties for those things can one really conjure up?
I don't begrudge PADI for making money on this idea (if it IS their idea). Any specialty can be educational and can't hurt anyway. Plus, think of the various wall certifications you rich guys could get that are suitable for framing! Those things cost money to print.....

 

[Jcp2]

Some people drive a Cayenne, others drive a Cavalier. What does it matter, as long as they are happy and don’t cut me off on the road?

 

[MichaelMc]

For the OP, which 20 specialties would you envision taking?

I find 31 national specialties. By 20, my rough grouping leaves you a sidemount advanced-rebreather altitude ice cavern wreck dry dpv diver. Which takes a broad dive environment. With a few fillers. If well taught you could learn a lot. Though a *good* intro to tech would likely make you more competent in the water than doing this slip shod. Or you get heavy into the environment and photography. I agree the dive count needs bumping up to match the onslaught of classes.

Nitrox
Nav
Night
Boat
Deep

Peak Performance Buoyancy --- (remedial OW?)
DSMB --- (remedial OW?)
Search and Recovery
Emergency O2
Multilevel diver (two and three level dives with eRDPML)

Drift
DPV
Sidemount
Cavern
Wreck

Dry
Ice
Altitude
Rebreather
Advanced Rebreather

FFM

Fish ID
Project Aware
AWARE Shark Conservation
Coral Reef Conservation
Dive Against Debris

Equipment Specialist
Underwater Naturalist
Underwater Photographer
Underwater Videographer
Adaptive Techniques