PADI AOW exemption for Lake Ouachita, AR. No deep?

[Hawkwood]

Funny......my ocean is in the 40's......

Our lakes, too, at this time of year. Teaching doesn't stop. Dive here, you learn to dive dry.

 

[Oldbear]

A bit past 60 ft is a joke. A deep dive should be in the 80-90 ft range. I'd be leery of a shop calling 61 feet ok for a deep dive. If necessary you travel or advise the student to take the class with a shop that can do the dive properly.

Hope about a shop calling this a "Wreck Dive"? Just remember all penetration dives are optional.

 

[DustyC]

Not to dig up an old thread, but this is what a lot of students are told that are doing AOW, and are told that it's also done for another lake here in AR where a student died doing a deep dive, and that's the given justification. True? I don't know. Probably not. But that's what they're told if anyone questions it.

 

[Oldbear]

Training Standards are just that...a list of parameters that NEED to be met in order for the training to meet the criteria for certification.

As the student diver you need to be comfortable in that training environment...but be willing to expand your personal comfort zone so you can grow in your diving abilities. If YOU (or any other diver) is not comfortable in training in your AR lakes, than a trip might be in order.

I live and teach in a warm tropical environment, but my most valuable training I ever had was dark cold lakes. For me it is so easy to go from those environments to this warm resort environment than to go in the reverse. My personal opinion if you can take your AOW in dark cold lakes of AR you will be a much better overall diver for it.

~Oldbear~

 

[boulderjohn]

Finding this very hard to believe, I contacted the regional director for PADI. He said there was a brief test waiver for the deep dive in Texas and Colorado, but that was 10 years ago, and he has never heard of any such waivers ever since. Even if there were such a waiver, it would not be for the deep dive entirely--it would only allow a slightly shallower depth under very unusual circumstances, and it would be a waiver for a specific instructor. (That sounds fairly definitive, but to be 100% certain, I would have to contact the individual at PADI who handles such waivers, and he is out of the office.)

Here in Colorado, the only water we have that is even close to deep enough for the AOW deep dive is at 10,000 feet elevation, and only available a few months of the year. When we certify divers for AOW, we have to do it on a group dive trip or on a trip to another state, usually New Mexico or Utah. I would have to believe that Arkansas would have to make the same sort of arrangements if they lack an appropriate nearby dive site.

On the other hand, if an instructor or dive shop MISTAKENLY believes that waiver exists, I can see how it could happen. When you certify a student for AOW, there is nothing in the process that confirms that you did a deep dive to the appropriate depth. It is assumed that the instructor followed the standards. Students are randomly checked after certification with a survey that MIGHT reveal a problem, but I have never seen that survey. If you can confirm that a shop is routinely skipping the Deep Dive requirement on the belief that they have such a waiver, please contact PADI with that information.

EDIT: After I wrote this post, I learned that in the random surveys, students completing AOW are indeed asked what depth they reached on their deep dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

Not to dig up an old thread, but this is what a lot of students are told that are doing AOW, and are told that it's also done for another lake here in AR where a student died doing a deep dive, and that's the given justification. True? I don't know. Probably not. But that's what they're told if anyone questions it.

I see from your profile that you are training to be a DM. What you said in this quote is important in that regard. If people are being certified AOW without doing the deep dive and without there being a genuine waiver (and I cannot believe there is one), then there is a very significant standards violation going on. If you are genuinely aware of those violations, then according to member standards, you must contact PADI. Don't worry about getting people in trouble--if they are genuinely misinformed, the result will be a correction of that misinformation, which will benefit everyone.

 

[DustyC]

I see from your profile that you are training to be a DM. What you said in this quote is important in that regard. If people are being certified AOW without doing the deep dive and without there being a genuine waiver (and I cannot believe there is one), then there is a very significant standards violation going on. If you are genuinely aware of those violations, then according to member standards, you must contact PADI. Don't worry about getting people in trouble--if they are genuinely misinformed, the result will be a correction of that misinformation, which will benefit everyone.

My info is second hand, and due to where I'm training, it would look like I had other motivations. If students are getting post course surveys asking about it, that should expose any potential wrong doing

 

[gcarter]

Sounds suspect, but lake diving has it's own challenges. 80-90 feet deep will have temps in the 40s and most students don't have the thermal protection to deal with that.

Did AOW and the deep specialty together, in a quarry. 120', 39F

 

[TMHeimer]

The question has been answered. But just for fun I'll add: My Deep Dive for AOW 10 years ago was to 63 fsw. This was through a shop that was (at the time, and who knows what later) deemed the "best PADI shop in PADI Americas", or something like that. So, we all seem to agree that just below 60' is not really a deep dive. Standards are standards--maybe this PADI one should be changed......Wouldn't take much to do that.

 

[boulderjohn]

My info is second hand, and due to where I'm training, it would look like I had other motivations. If students are getting post course surveys asking about it, that should expose any potential wrong doing

Think this through.

You now say your information is not reliable enough for you to act, yet you felt earlier that it was reliable enough to post on the largest scuba discussion site in the world, thus affecting the understanding of thousands of readers who are using information like this to make their diving decisions.

Do you feel any personal obligation to make the scuba diving industry the best it can be? If not, why are you planning to become a professional? If so, why are you not willing to act on what you yourself posted here? As I said, no one will be hurt. All you have to do is report what you have been told to PADI, and PADI will act to correct any misunderstandings.