PADI? A necessity?

[Thalassamania]

Again, you get out of it what you put in. So hopefully a student will speak up if they feel they aren't getting the information or instruction they need. It's all about being comfortable and safe.

The problem is that students have no idea of what they really need. A truly educated buyer would be the best thing that has happened to diving since Rene's Sporting Goods.

 

[SparticleBrane]

if you want "old school." go L.A. Cnty or a NAUI Instructor 9999 or below. PADI's hardly. "old school." Recreational Dive Planner is hardly "old school." there were (I believe) dive compters available before the RDP hit the street.

Hmm...my OW instructor in in the 14,000s and my Rescue/Adv. Nitrox/TA instructor is in the 3,400s. (NAUI)

 

[wontbslow]

The problem is that students have no idea of what they really need. A truly educated buyer would be the best thing that has happened to diving since Rene's Sporting Goods.

I totally agree. That's why it's a shame when students get stuck with poor instructor.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hmm...my OW instructor in in the 14,000s and my Rescue/Adv. Nitrox/TA instructor is in the 3,400s. (NAUI)

We woun't hold that "johnny-come-lately" that did your OW against you. At least you did better for your other classes<G>.

 

[The Chairman]

So often it's a matter of ego. Who has the "hardest" agency or who is the most "old school". Personally, I reject the old school mentality. They are indeed legends in their own minds, but aside from that, the sport seems to be enjoying fewer injuries per capita and not more. You don't need to be a Navy Seal to dive safely. Not even close!

I would daresay, that trim and neutral buoyancy are better taught in the current classes than those ten years ago and especially those 20 or 30 years ago. Why? First, there was little emphasis on reef protection back then. Second, people are able to get better information about their diving via the internet. You old farts never had the luxury of being able to do research about this sport so quickly and efficiently before.

Knowledge was often given on a "need to know" basis. You were not able to gain new knowledge until your drillmaster, er instructor, gave you access. Dive training was often on par with some kind of "boot camp" mentality that gave the instructor ultimate power.

The paradigm has changed. Students no longer need or want the "Sage on the Stage" mentality proffered by many "old school" instructors. They are tired of inefficient and backward teaching methods that extend the learning curve ad nauseum just so you can smugly do things the way you have always done them. You didn't invent Scuba, stop acting like you have some sort of lock on it's secrets!

I would suggest to most students looking to learn to dive today: Take TWO courses. Do your academics on line, in the comfort of your home or office. www.tdisdi.com, www.evodive.com as well as the site who seems to have started it all: www.scuba-training.net are wonderful places to begin your knowledge acquisition.

Then find an instructor who lives to teach! Don't look for the guy or gal who has become dour about the state of dive training. Rather look for the instructor who just can't wait to get YOU into the water to learn skills. If they have an inflated view of themselves, I would walk, as Scuba will be more about them than about you. Scuba is a FUN sport... find some one who will make and keep it fun.

Flame suit on and secured!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... find an instructor who lives to teach! Don't look for the guy or gal who has become dour about the state of dive training. Rather look for the instructor who just can't wait to get YOU into the water to learn skills. If they have an inflated view of themselves, I would walk, as Scuba will be more about them than about you. Scuba is a FUN sport... find some one who will make and keep it fun.

That's overall the best advise I've seen in this entire thread.

First and foremost, remember that you got into this activity to have fun ... and that as with most recreational activities, the more skilled you can become, the easier it is to relax and have fun. Dive instruction should be all about you learning the skills to be a safe and effective diver. It should also be about enjoying the learning process.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Walter]

Pete, I've heard of instructors like that, but I've never actually met one. In the early days of diving, instructors would have students do things like pushups while wearing tanks. They would assign difficult skills and the student would either accomplish the skills with no instruction or wash out of the class. That's not teaching and it's been many years since I've heard of anyone who actually conducts "classes" like that.

Today, there are two approaches to dive courses with some, perhaps a hybrid.

The most common approach is to eliminate any difficult skill from the course.

The other approach is to actually break the skills down into their individual componets and actually teach people how to accomplish the skills.

Most favor the first approach, but I believe it actually short changes the student/diver. The second approach prepares the diver for the real world. It allows them to dive without a baby sitter. It builds their confidence so they are not likely to panic at the first sign of trouble. It takes more time, but it's actually an easier approach for both the instructor and the student.

 

[cerich]

Pete, I've heard of instructors like that, but I've never actually met one. In the early days of diving, instructors would have students do things like pushups while wearing tanks. They would assign difficult skills and the student would either accomplish the skills with no instruction or wash out of the class. That's not teaching and it's been many years since I've heard of anyone who actually conducts "classes" like that.

Today, there are two approaches to dive courses with some, perhaps a hybrid.

The most common approach is to eliminate any difficult skill from the course.

The other approach is to actually break the skills down into their individual componets and actually teach people how to accomplish the skills.

Most favor the first approach, but I believe it actually short changes the student/diver. The second approach prepares the diver for the real world. It allows them to dive without a baby sitter. It builds their confidence so they are not likely to panic at the first sign of trouble. It takes more time, but it's actually an easier approach for both the instructor and the student.

I started teaching the second approach, when in Cayman after I had crossed over to PADI, I went the first route (followed the standards, did courses in the normal resort fashion), learned the second was MUCH easier on me and my students and will never teach that way again.

 

[Doc Sparty]

Thanks so much for all of the great replies. I looked into the Caribbean Dive Shop as someone suggested but I think Harry's is the place for me. I walkd into the shop originally to try on a shorty wetsuit I want for Christmas. Cindy was great so I opted to return for a 'try it' session. After only 2 hours with the instructor I was able to regulate my bouyancy, clear my mask, and find my regulator when it was pulled out of my mouth. I was totally amazed. I was scared half to death but the instructor was awesome. Thanks again for all of the info. It sure helps to hear ideas from the ones who enjoy the sport so much.

Doc Sparty

 

[Thalassamania]

So often it's a matter of ego. Who has the "hardest" agency or who is the most "old school". Personally, I reject the old school mentality. They are indeed legends in their own minds, but aside from that, the sport seems to be enjoying fewer injuries per capita and not more. You don't need to be a Navy Seal to dive safely. Not even close!

I would daresay, that trim and neutral buoyancy are better taught in the current classes than those ten years ago and especially those 20 or 30 years ago. Why? First, there was little emphasis on reef protection back then. Second, people are able to get better information about their diving via the internet. You old farts never had the luxury of being able to do research about this sport so quickly and efficiently before.

Knowledge was often given on a "need to know" basis. You were not able to gain new knowledge until your drillmaster, er instructor, gave you access. Dive training was often on par with some kind of "boot camp" mentality that gave the instructor ultimate power.

The paradigm has changed. Students no longer need or want the "Sage on the Stage" mentality proffered by many "old school" instructors. They are tired of inefficient and backward teaching methods that extend the learning curve ad nauseum just so you can smugly do things the way you have always done them. You didn't invent Scuba, stop acting like you have some sort of lock on it's secrets!

I would suggest to most students looking to learn to dive today: Take TWO courses. Do your academics on line, in the comfort of your home or office. www.tdisdi.com, www.evodive.com as well as the site who seems to have started it all: www.scuba-training.net are wonderful places to begin your knowledge acquisition.

Then find an instructor who lives to teach! Don't look for the guy or gal who has become dour about the state of dive training. Rather look for the instructor who just can't wait to get YOU into the water to learn skills. If they have an inflated view of themselves, I would walk, as Scuba will be more about them than about you. Scuba is a FUN sport... find some one who will make and keep it fun.

Flame suit on and secured!

Whew ... gee Doc, did you have a nasty instructor involved in your early potty training?<G>

Maybe not in your neck of the woods, can't speak for that, but within academics the "old timers" have always been the thinking divers not the SEAL types. Folks like Jim Stewart, Lee Somers, Walt Hendricks Sr. those are my role models (and except for Jim having taught the Navy how to use open circuit scuba, there's not a military type among them.) Trim and buoyancy has always been taught (need to fill the 100 yours of instruction with something) since the early 1950s.

People like me had the luxury of having nothing to do except think about, teach, and do diving ... no day job, no gear sales, etc. Typically we built large cadres of instructional staff to share the stage with and as individual instructors developed their expertise in specific areas they specialized in teaching them (e.g., physics by physicists, medicine by and M.D.s, environment by Oceanographers, equipment by engineers, etc.).

I read your descriptions of dour instructors who miss being SEALS and who withhold "need to know" information and I really wonder what a rather bizarre world you must live in. Or maybe I'm the one who lives in a bizarre world where, frankly, the things you describe do not exist, though we do teach courses with both academic rigor and physical challenge as required by our sponsoring institutions.