Oxygen poisoning seizure > how to react ?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

There are lots of opinions on this, but mine is as follows.

I would not have the gag strap under your mask strap. You are very unlikely to want to remove your mask, but you may want to remove the mouthpiece - so its strap should be on top. As to where to put the mouthpiece after removal, either will work though if the mouthpiece strap is under your mask strap, pulling the loop over your head may risk dislodging your mask (hence another argument against that arrangement). I have practiced both strategies (under the chin and over the head) and both work.

Simon

Thank you Dr. Mitchell. That makes sense. I'm still getting used to the tweaks in my configuration, and the mask strap is the latest one. I only have done one dive on it. Fortunately I'm just doing training dives with a friend who lives close by and we dive at a park on Lake Washington that's five minutes from our homes. This makes for logistically simple (especially reduced equipment rinsing) dives during the week and I get in the repetitions I need on a consistent basic. As my friend is OC, it sure is good practice to be doing those safety stops at 15 feet!

I want to get back to practicing emergency skills, deploying DSMB, etc., all the MOD 1 skills again.

 

[beester]

Since I'm diving the breather in a GUE setup (meaning GUE procedures and mixed team diving sometimes) I'm somewhat limited. Using a gag strap doesn't work well with donating.

Was thinking about the following. I don't have a BOV (just a standard DSV), with a bungeed backup reg connected to my left post (dilluent/bailout). In a way this could be used as a sort of gag strap. If I feel something and have time to react I could potentially go off the loop to my bungeed backup and pull the bungee to the back of my head fixing it in place.

Probably I won't have time to do this, but at least it's a scenario that I'm considering and stays in line with GUE procedures.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Since I'm diving the breather in a GUE setup (meaning GUE procedures and mixed team diving sometimes) I'm somewhat limited. Using a gag strap doesn't work well with donating.

Was thinking about the following. I don't have a BOV (just a standard DSV), with a bungeed backup reg connected to my left post (dilluent/bailout). In a way this could be used as a sort of gag strap. If I feel something and have time to react I could potentially go off the loop to my bungeed backup and pull the bungee to the back of my head fixing it in place.

Probably I won't have time to do this, but at least it's a scenario that I'm considering and stays in line with GUE procedures.

GUE CC included donating the loop?

 

[grantctobin]

GUE CC included donating the loop?

???

If the long hose is under the loop, as is standard protocol, donation of the longhouse involves removal of the loop from the mouth.

 

[doctormike]

???

If the long hose is under the loop, as is standard protocol, donation of the longhouse involves removal of the loop from the mouth.

Really? I don't know much about GUE, and maybe I don't understand.

In an emergency when one diver needs gas, the protocol involves the rescuing diver to close their DSV, remove the loop, donate a first stage, put the loop back in their mouth and then reopen the DSV? Why do they it that way? Isn't there any way of donating gas without coming off the loop?

Is that why @beester said that the gag strap doesn't work well with GUE?

 

[grantctobin]

Really? I don't know much about GUE, and maybe I don't understand.

In an emergency when one diver needs gas, the protocol involves the rescuing diver to close their DSV, remove the loop, donate a first stage, put the loop back in their mouth and then reopen the DSV? Why do they it that way? Isn't there any way of donating gas without coming off the loop?

Is that why @beester said that the gag strap doesn't work well with GUE?

Yep, close DSV/BOV, remove, donate long hose second stage, reinsert loop. In full CCR teams in less traveled locations, the likelihood of an unexpected OOG incident on a CCR is pretty low. It means 1) the unit has failed 2) the backup necklaced reg has failed 3) (if sidemounted bailout or backmount bailout) the long hose has failed. At any point in this process, the teammate should ready deployment of his own long hose and it’s unlikely a rushed process. I can’t think of anyone I know using BM bailout with a long hose under the loop that uses a gag strap, but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t people that do it.

Blog post on the rationale for the GUE loadout:

The Thought Process Behind GUE’s CCR Configuration

Global Underwater Explorers is known for taking its own holistic approach to gear configuration. Here GUE board member and Instructor Trainer Richard Lundgren explains the reasoning behind its unique closed-circuit rebreather configuration. It’s all about the gas!

gue.com

It’s not an ideal long range cave penetration tool (as LP50s are small), but that’s not really what it was intended for.

 

[doctormike]

OK, I looked at the post, I think that it just says that you are unlikely to need to donate gas because of all of the other GUE precautions? And it does say that you can donate without removing the loop.

Maybe you can summarize the advantage here that makes it worth the tradeoff?

Is there is no way of stowing a backup second stage in a way that isn't trapped by the loop? I don't like removing the loop if I don't have to at all, let alone during an emergency. No matter how much you train, no matter how well thought out your protocols are - things degrade in a high stress situation. So why not try to eliminate those steps that would delay providing gas to a victim?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

And it does say that you can donate without removing the loop.

It would be a really goofy configuration if you had to remove the loop to donate.

I guess though in GUE they don't donate cylinders like I think everyone else does. Is that correct?

 

[beester]

OK, I looked at the post, I think that it just says that you are unlikely to need to donate gas because of all of the other GUE precautions? And it does say that you can donate without removing the loop.

Maybe you can summarize the advantage here that makes it worth the tradeoff?

Is there is no way of stowing a backup second stage in a way that isn't trapped by the loop? I don't like removing the loop if I don't have to at all, let alone during an emergency. No matter how much you train, no matter how well thought out your protocols are - things degrade in a high stress situation. So why not try to eliminate those steps that would delay providing gas to a victim?

In a full rebreather team, the it is very unlikely that you need to donate because this would mean:
- Compromised rebreather (go of the loop)
- Backup reg bungeed not functioning
- Long hose clipped of to right D ring not functioning

So by the time a donation is needed you probably have already notified the team that something is off, and they can prepare accordingly, (which is the same as donating a bailout tank, there is no need of urgency, because the rebreather diver will first go to his own bailout).

In mixed teams (OC + rebreather) it's a different thing because your bailout gas (on the back in GUE setup) is now also the backup gas of your OC buddy. In these scenarios I will elect (and will tell my OC buddy) that I'll put the longhose over the loop and clip it off. Yes it's still clipped off and in OOG scenarios I need to be fast to unclip but the longhose is already ready to be deployed without me having to come of the loop. Worst case scenario (if I'm slow unclipping) the out of gas OC diver can grab the reg still clipped (drinking from my tit as I call it jokingly).

On donating bailout. The basic premises is that every diver in the team carries all his bailout (no team bailout). I know GUE guys who will do some team bailout on very deep dives (not bottom bailout but for example intermediate deco gasses like an 18/45 (72m) or 21/35 (57m) deco gas being split between the team, one carrying the 18/45 the other the 21/35, because in theory you should be able to do most of the intermediate deco on 1 of these gasses, so if push comes to shove and can't donate you are not in trouble).... but this is getting far from standard practise.

I have to say i'm happy with the setup in open water wreck diving... not so much in cave diving. A good GUE friend of mine elected to revert his JJ back to standard 3L setup using off board bailout and cliping a longhose from this off board bailout to his D, ring... and I can his point of view, specially when it comes to cave diving.

Anyway getting too much off topic I guess.

 

[ginti]

I have to say i'm happy with the setup in open water wreck diving... not so much in cave diving. A good GUE friend of mine elected to revert his JJ back to standard 3L setup using off board bailout and cliping a longhose from this off board bailout to his D, ring... and I can his point of view, specially when it comes to cave diving.

A bit OT, sorry for that...

Why do you like it for sea diving and not for cave diving?

I know I ask this question quite often, but I am still in the process of learning all the differences between these two environments that are important when diving rebreathers... You can answer in PM if you do not want to derail the thread too much