OW vs AOW

[Garrobo]

The 'magical' thing that happens is that about three to four hundred of your hard-earned dollars leaves your wallet and goes into the bank account of a cert agency and dive shop.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Your not allowed to go beyond 60 ft. until you have achieved the rating of Master Diver. So, pay up!

You theoritically SHOULD be taught in an "Advanced" class, actual dive planning, how to calculate your gas consumption, and how to incorporate that information into that dive plan. There are other things as well.

Sadly, these things are not taught by some (many?) instructors.....and I guess "Advanced" doesn't really mean advanced.

Some "Advanced" divers aren't really taught by their instructors the things they should be to dive deeper than 60 ft.

How do I know this?
It get's sold on this forum regularly......remember...less is more.
The OW diver is many, many, many specialty classes away from being able to dive deeper than 60 ft.:shocked2:



-Mitch

Deep diver certification will take you below 60ft

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Duplicate post

 

[nimoh]

I think OW and AOW divers need to ask themselves "Am I ready for this?" rather than "do I meet the minimum certification for this?"

Furthermore, they should be soliciting feedback from their instructors.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

For starters, let's talk reality. After my certification dives in Hawaii, I went out on a dive boat for my first real dive. It was to 80 feet at Molokini crater, Hawaii. My wife has an open water level credential, has hundreds of dives, over half of which are to over 60 feet and up to 125 feet. However, she always dives with me, a long time insured PADI pro. A certified diver is not "policed" as to depth. Having said that, I recommend the advanced course for 3 reasons. 1. You will get additional instruction and should particularly advance you skills in buoyancy control, navigation, and dive planning. 2. You will get three or four hours of in water time, and that is significant in advancing all skills. 3. Many dive concessionaires will limit the diving they will allow unless you have an aow card. Of course, the value of the class depends upon the quality of the instruction and your investment in it. One last thought, in the form of a question. Would you rather have as a buddy someone with an advanced card who has a total of 20 dives and 15 hours under water in rental gear, or a person with an open water card hundreds of ocean dives and their own gear? There are a variety of ways to become competent. The best way is through BOTH continuing dive education and being an active diver.
DivemasterDennis

 

[nimoh]

For starters, let's talk reality. After my certification dives in Hawaii, I went out on a dive boat for my first real dive. It was to 80 feet at Molokini crater, Hawaii. My wife has an open water level credential, has hundreds of dives, over half of which are to over 60 feet and up to 125 feet. However, she always dives with me, a long time insured PADI pro. A certified diver is not "policed" as to depth. Having said that, I recommend the advanced course for 3 reasons. 1. You will get additional instruction and should particularly advance you skills in buoyancy control, navigation, and dive planning. 2. You will get three or four hours of in water time, and that is significant in advancing all skills. 3. Many dive concessionaires will limit the diving they will allow unless you have an aow card. Of course, the value of the class depends upon the quality of the instruction and your investment in it. One last thought, in the form of a question. Would you rather have as a buddy someone with an advanced card who has a total of 20 dives and 15 hours under water in rental gear, or a person with an open water card hundreds of ocean dives and their own gear? There are a variety of ways to become competent. The best way is through BOTH continuing dive education and being an active diver.
DivemasterDennis

well said. I would dive with either diver, but would be paying much closer attention to the AOW diver. At some point that AOW diver has to make their 21st dive on their way to hundreds of dives.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

The short answer is that nothing magical happens in AOW, that makes it safe for you to go to 100 feet. But in theory, you have at least five more dives under your belt, and have had a chance to see what narcosis feels like and how much it affects you at that depth, and you've had a chance to talk a bit more about how fast your gas disappears on deeper dives. You've done a little more navigating, and perhaps a dive in the dark (since it's often dark at those depths).

Sadly, those five dives and the learning that comes with them are often not enough to make it safe for divers to go to those depths. I've read too many reports (and know of at least one local case) where someone just out of AOW does a deep dive and runs out of gas. An AOW cert does not relieve the diver of the need to pay close attention to his pressure gauge, and since the class is often taught shortly after OW, the graduates are often still new enough to have VERY high gas consumption rates. Deep dives, high consumption, and often small tanks are a recipe for urgent ascents and OOA scenarios.

This is so true for me, I got my AOW the same week I got OW certified, and Deep within 2 months. But I only do shallow dives because of my consumption rate. I realized when i was getting my deep certification that the time spend down wasn't worth the long trip down.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

AOW gives you the first required lesson of most advanced certification, with deep and Navigation required. You can just take each course without taking AOW. Some dive ops won't let you go on certain dives unless you have AOW or the specialty cert for that dive. IE Deep if you want to go on deep, or most wreck dives, and wreck if you want to go on a dive that penetrates the wreck.

 

[DevonDiver]

Quick question. As an OW diver, I'm theoretically not supposed to dive below 60'. My question is, what magically happens in AOW classes that makes it now ok for you to go deeper? Is there anything special that you are taught to do below 60'?

This is an incorrect assumption. PADI specifically state that a "Newly Certified" Open Water diver is recommended to maintain a maximum limit of 18m/60ft. They DO account for accumulated experience, when advising divers on how to judge personal depth limits.

30m/100ft is the recommended limit for divers with training and experience "beyond" OW Level (i.e. AOW and/or specialities etc).

40m/130t is the absolute max limit for recreational divers (no training in accelerated/staged deco/multi-gas/overhead etc)

If you've recently graduated from OW, or graduated some time previously but not accumulated significant experience since, then it's damned prudent advice that you shouldn't be galavanting into situations that raise the stakes and consequences of basic, noobie errors (buoyancy control, gas management/awareness etc).

If you're prone to screw-ups (as most novice divers are), then staying within 1 minutes travel of the surface is pretty clever. When your tendency to err decreases (with developing experience and ingraining of skills) then you can progress further from the surface.

Depth is a small number... easy to be complacent about. Considering depth in relation to "time to surface" paints a more realistic picture of the situation. Think back to how you performed on your CESA practice.... and how long you can sustain calm, measured action without air supply... then compare that to the "time to surface" you wish to operate at.


What happens on an AOW class? You (should) get 5 high-quality dives that expose you to a wider range of experience, whilst safely supervised (more forgiving if you screw up), more chance to ingrain core skills (properly, without bad habits forming) and you should boost your knowledge and risk awareness during the process.

You could do this on your own.... but maybe not to the same level in 5 dives. Some people only do 5 dive a year... so it's relative. You may also do more harm than good... as complacency and bad habits are easily formed in the early tentative stages of diver development.

Your AOW course could be spectacular... or dismal. It's one of those courses that is entirely dependant on the quality, experience and motivation of the instructor. 5 dives under the tutelage of a great instructor is a fast-track to solid competency. 5 dives (or...heck..even 50 dives) with a de-motivated 'minimum standards - minimum effort - minimum experience' instructor is a fast-track to money wastage and cynicism on the benefits of training (spot those victims in this, and other similar, threads... )

 

[DevonDiver]

AOW gives you the first required lesson of most advanced certification, with deep and Navigation required. You can just take each course without taking AOW. Some dive ops won't let you go on certain dives unless you have AOW or the specialty cert for that dive. IE Deep if you want to go on deep, or most wreck dives, and wreck if you want to go on a dive that penetrates the wreck.

You're confusing the PADI and SSI system, I think. Adv Diver/AOW is a prerequisite for Deep, in PADI. It isn't with SSI.

Any dive operator that demanded 'Wreck Diver' before allowing a penetration dive would be a bit disingenuous. The Wreck Diver course can be great, but rarely is... it doesn't really teach any manner of penetration skills. At best, it could be considered an 'Intro'. Given that an actual wreck penetration isn't required (optional) on the course... the certification shouldn't be considered as any form of 'license' to enter wrecks (even under the 'recreational' wreck diving limits)

Likewise, I personally wouldn't put much credence on a 'Deep Diver' c-card when deciding a diver's suitability for 30-40m range diving. Such a decision would be based upon prior dive performance. I won't take an 'unknown' recreational diver to those depths - there'll be check-outs and/or shallower dives first - during which I'd be evaluating how you apply your skill-set, your attitude and your overall credibility and competency. Certified 'Deep' or not, you have to be a good, safe and responsible diver.