OW vs AOW

[DevonDiver]

I should have added ,that I realize that many people don't want a longer initial period of training due to scheduling or cash outlay all at once.

Yes.... which is frustrating when those same people then make disparaging comments about the 'completeness' of those courses.... especially the very ill-informed snipes such as 'Put Another Dollar In'.

"I did the cheapest, most convenient, minimal entry-level training available.... and NOW they want me to pay more money to develop myself?!? Outrage!!!"

The problem with this is that if most of those students never get the later training or wait a long time to take it...they are diving without having been taught all that they could/should have.

It certainly is a problem. That problem is cultivated by the cynical attitude of those who don't understand how a modular system operates... and then detract from it with snide remarks and criticism of the organisation/s which operate modular training in conjunction with a system of recommended level-defined limitations and encouragement for continued development and progression.

Anyone who does a PADI Open Water course is educated about the continued education system. They're informed about the benefits of progressing their training in line with their experience. If they choose to be cynical about that, but also choose to engage in the system because it is initially cheaper and more convenient... then they're acting in a self-defeating and hypocritical way.

I actually like the PADI system. Of course, the quality is determined by the instructor, but the concept is sound...and applicable to the needs of many divers. BUT.. that system needs to be respected for what it is... and the progression needs to be followed, otherwise it IS insufficient.

4 training dives never made anyone a great independent diver. It never made anyone capable of conducting deep, deco, solo or otherwise aggressive or demanding dives. IMHO anyone who graduated from the course believing otherwise is self-deluded. No wonder they get cynical. Who's fault is that?

 

[ozzydamo]

This is so true for me, I got my AOW the same week I got OW certified, and Deep within 2 months. But I only do shallow dives because of my consumption rate. I realized when i was getting my deep certification that the time spend down wasn't worth the long trip down.

I would say the opposite words here; its a quick trip down for a long trip back up, but the same essence- more journey then bottom time.
It's a wise decision to improve your SAC before going to much deeper, you dive for pleasure... so a longer dive is more enjoyable anyhow.
After 25m an al80 is on the smallish side and bottom times are limited by NDL.
Another point I would make is color, the colors are better above 15m unless you've got fantastic viz o the day.

 

[Bob DBF]

I actually like the PADI system. Of course, the quality is determined by the instructor, but the concept is sound...and applicable to the needs of many divers. BUT.. that system needs to be respected for what it is... and the progression needs to be followed, otherwise it IS insufficient.

I would like to add that quality of the class is not just on the instructor, but the student as well.

4 training dives never made anyone a great independent diver. It never made anyone capable of conducting deep, deco, solo or otherwise aggressive or demanding dives. IMHO anyone who graduated from the course believing otherwise is self-deluded. No wonder they get cynical. Who's fault is that?

I took a number of PADI classes over the past several years, for reasons other than diving.

My claim to fame was in the Navigation class I was not as accurate as I expected so I flunked myself. The Instructor was shocked, that hadn't happend before, and pointed out that it was good enough. But I had none of it and retook the Nav class the next time out. My Nav class was 7 dives and I learned something from it, even though my sloppy navigation had taken care of me for years.

The instructor was fine with me joining his next class because his focus is to train divers, not just hand out cards. If you want to pass with the minimum standard, and grab your card, then it is your choice, not just the Agency or the Instructor.

If you truly want to learn in a class, come well prepared, work hard, and don't skip over something you don't understand thinking you will magicly understand later.



Bob
---------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Quick question. As an OW diver, I'm theoretically not supposed to dive below 60'. My question is, what magically happens in AOW classes that makes it now ok for you to go deeper? Is there anything special that you are taught to do below 60'?

Hope we did get to far off your question, as you can see it's not the certification you have, but what you put into being a better diver that's the magic.

 

[cascas]

The OW diver is many, many, many specialty classes away from being able to dive deeper than 60 ft.:shocked2:

No...just one ! A good one...

 

[ajduplessis]

Quick question. As an OW diver, I'm theoretically not supposed to dive below 60'. My question is, what magically happens in AOW classes that makes it now ok for you to go deeper? Is there anything special that you are taught to do below 60'?

The "magic" is knowledge.

 

[dallaskincaid]

In the interest of full disclosure, I went to 82 feet on a wall during my third dive. It was a simple oversight on my part because I hadn't yet improved my buoyancy skills and I was following a led dive and not paying as much attention to my depth as I should have. Did I feel like I was in danger? Not at all. Did I notice my air rapidly going down? You betcha! It taught me to be more aware of my depth in future dives and also that there really isn't a whole lot different to see at 80' than there is at 60'!

I think a big part of diving initially is just becoming comfortable with your equipment and moving in the water. These are the things that you aren't going to be taught in a class. It takes experience to get there.

The reason why I asked the question about OW vs AOW is because you DO see many operators requiring an AOW certification and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me since at the end of the day safety requires experience and not just a class.

 

[nimoh]

In the interest of full disclosure, I went to 82 feet on a wall during my third dive. It was a simple oversight on my part because I hadn't yet improved my buoyancy skills and I was following a led dive and not paying as much attention to my depth as I should have. Did I feel like I was in danger? Not at all. Did I notice my air rapidly going down? You betcha! It taught me to be more aware of my depth in future dives and also that there really isn't a whole lot different to see at 80' than there is at 60'!

I think a big part of diving initially is just becoming comfortable with your equipment and moving in the water. These are the things that you aren't going to be taught in a class. It takes experience to get there.

The reason why I asked the question about OW vs AOW is because you DO see many operators requiring an AOW certification and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me since at the end of the day safety requires experience and not just a class.

I agree that experience is important and I think it is best to get a few dives under your belt before going to AOW. However, 10-20 dives after OW it is reasonable to assume that you may have picked up a few bad habits and AOW can help put you back on the right track.

 

[ozzydamo]

I would like to add that quality of the class is not just on the instructor, but the student as well.



I took a number of PADI classes over the past several years, for reasons other than diving.

My claim to fame was in the Navigation class I was not as accurate as I expected so I flunked myself. The Instructor was shocked, that hadn't happend before, and pointed out that it was good enough. But I had none of it and retook the Nav class the next time out. My Nav class was 7 dives and I learned something from it, even though my sloppy navigation had taken care of me for years.

The instructor was fine with me joining his next class because his focus is to train divers, not just hand out cards. If you want to pass with the minimum standard, and grab your card, then it is your choice, not just the Agency or the Instructor.

If you truly want to learn in a class, come well prepared, work hard, and don't skip over something you don't understand thinking you will magicly understand later.



Bob
---------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

How many people have been certed just getting the text books on the day, instead of buying in advance and studying them for awhile, highlighting things they have trouble understanding?

Lot of things get waved through in the sausage factory training programs. It shows on dive charters later, you can't hide fear and anxiousness, It's dangerous too for the buddy.
Underwater trim and aquanaughtical skills can't be certed to you, it takes time. I would recommend more people do some skindiving before scuba so they can perfect their watermanskip skills cheaply and without the added efforts of the scuba gear. A good skindiver finds scuba diving to be quite lazy effort wise.
Swimming and being comfortable in open water situations should be paramount to any level of certification.