OW v. AOW

[miketsp]

I personnally think this is due to taking AOW directly after OW. People havent got the basic skills down and are too busy messing around with bouyancy to be taking in the new facts for AOW

Fully agree.

IMHO the best result is obtained if you and your buddy have at least 30 dives and have seen a variety of diving conditions and then you get a personalised course just for the two of you which doesn't cost much more. At some LDSs, with 2 students the price doesn't change.

The course then becomes much more interesting for the students and the instructor because it becomes interactive and you really get to work on missing details & weak skills.

You get much more out of it.

 

[DENNISDIVES]

Personally I like to interview those canidates who wish to take an AOW class from me. I really like to dive with them before they enter the course. I can then evaluate their skills and see if they are ready for AOW or have they exceeded the AOW skills and should be thinking of Scuba Rescue or Master Diver or beyond.

 

[Kim]

No...they are advanced already. What would you do as trip leader, not necessarily an instructor to ensure they have the know how to do these dives prior to the trip? All you know is that they have an advanced card and 50+ dives.

As I'm interested in your answer I'll have a go! I'd ask them if they've done these kind of dives before. I'd ask them if they were confident using their compasses (which I presume they have!) I'd probably ask them to plan out the dives they'll be doing using only tables, then simulate the same dives on their computers and note any differences. I'd probably ask them what their SAC rates are and what their projected BT's are. I'd also ask them their ascent pressures. If they had the obvious mastery of the theory to do all that with no problems I'd think that they were good to go (pending in-water observation), and ask them how much weight they wanted!
I'm not an instructor - so, marks out of 10?

 

[TekDiveGirl]

Here is one for you, The other weekend I am hosting a weekend trip for advanced divers or ones doing Adv checkouts. I have two divers that are dive buddies. Both are advanced, been diving a few years, have 50+ dives. So far so good right. They meet many of the requirements so far that have defined an "advanced" diver. I did not train them in either basic or advanced. As the trip leader what would you do with these two guys?

They are advanced divers - you are not instructing them. You should not have to do anything with them. Whatever happened to diver responsibility?

Kimber

 

[TekDiveGirl]

As I'm interested in your answer I'll have a go! I'd ask them if they've done these kind of dives before. I'd ask them if they were confident using their compasses (which I presume they have!) I'd probably ask them to plan out the dives they'll be doing using only tables, then simulate the same dives on their computers and note any differences. I'd probably ask them what their SAC rates are and what their projected BT's are. I'd also ask them their ascent pressures. If they had the obvious mastery of the theory to do all that with no problems I'd think that they were good to go (pending in-water observation), and ask them how much weight they wanted!
I'm not an instructor - so, marks out of 10?

This is so way overboard. I hope is was somewhat tongue in cheek. You will find most guy divers at this level if you ask them about their SAC - they will look at their crotch. They will have no clue what you are truly refering to. (-;

These are AOW divers -- if they can show their C-cards - let them dive. They already took their tests and passed once, they don't need to be grilled again. I am sure if they did not feel comfortable they would say something. They knew what they signed up to go do. It isnt any big surprise what dives are planned.

Kimber

 

[Kim]

I hope is was somewhat tongue in cheek.
Kimber

LOL. Maybe just a little!
I do think though that all independant divers should be capable of doing what I suggested for themselves and putting it into practice. People who don't even know what a SAC rate is probably shouldn't be diving without surpervision IMO.
Seriously, I agree that you probably couldn't ask divers to do what I said. On the other hand, I would watch them and see how they setup their gear, wether they did any kind of pre-dive planning (especially if they involved tables or not), wether they did basic buddy checks etc. Based on what I observed I'd form my own conclusions and either think that they'd probably be OK, or suspect that they might not. Either way I'd also watch them during the first dive to see how they fared.

 

[TekDiveGirl]

LOL. Maybe just a little!
I do think though that all independant divers should be capable of doing what I suggested for themselves and putting it into practice. People who don't even know what a SAC rate is probably shouldn't be diving without surpervision IMO.
Seriously, I agree that you probably couldn't ask divers to do what I said. On the other hand, I would watch them and see how they setup their gear, wether they did any kind of pre-dive planning (especially if they involved tables or not), wether they did basic buddy checks etc. Based on what I observed I'd form my own conclusions and either think that they'd probably be OK, or suspect that they might not. Either way I'd also watch them during the first dive to see how they fared.

If I was a tour guide and responsible for these people... especially if they haven't been diving in awhile...

I would just have a chat with them. Hey these are our profiles and our dives. You feeling cool with your navigation skills etc? Anything you would like me to go over with you since it has been X amount of time since you dove last? A real informal kind of deal - not an interrogation.

Without a doubt I would keep an eye on them when they set up their gear and definitely a bit closer on that first dive. Just to make sure all is good and right in the world.

Kimber

 

[alcina]

Lots of divers it appears are reading this thread...in the whole thing I haven't seen SAC defined (or I might have missed it) - perhaps someone would like to take a crack at that, at least a general overview, to better equip the new divers with questions they should be asking their instructors to explain...thanks

 

[Kim]

Ok - as I brought it up I suppose I'd better say something!

SAC = Surface Air Consumption.
Basically we all know that air compresses at depth. At 10 meters/33 feet a given volume of air will occupy half the space it did at the surface, or the other way around - the same volume of air will be twice as much at that depth. If I know that I use 25 lbs of air/per minute at the surface, it follows that I'll use 50lbs/minute at 33ft, 75lbs/minute at 66ft and 100lbs/minute at 99ft. Knowing my surface consumption rate therefore gives me a way to judge how long a tank of air will last me at different depths - very useful information for dive planning. Obviously depending on what I'm doing and how strenuous the activity is my rate of air consumption will change accordingly. However, knowing that, and taking it into account, will still give me good information to make my dive plans.

A detailed description of SAC, including how to calculate various things, can be found here:
http://home.flash.net/~table/gasses/sac.htm

 

[ZenDiver]

They are advanced divers - you are not instructing them. You should not have to do anything with them. Whatever happened to diver responsibility?

Kimber

As a trip leader and organizer I am curious as to their level of ability. Can they do this dive, regardless of Advanced rating? Do they have equivalent experience? A diver over his ability in the water is as much a danger to me as they are to themselves because if I have to rescue them what situation will that put me on the safety scale? both of you have said that a good interview is the best starting place. That is the best answer you can give IMO. Look for a comfort factor.


Brian