OW v. AOW

[The Chairman]

I think cavers have this down pat...

Cavern

Intro to Cave

Cave Apprentice

Full Cave

I spend more for each class at this level then I did for my OW. Not only does this address the issue of supervision, but also of compensating the instructor fairly. Well, at least more fairly.

I also see the day when the academics are taught online or through a CD. A sharp instructor will gain all the insight needed into his students during the first ten minutes of a pool session. I can see it broken down into several sections as was stated earlier...

Scuba Academics

Intro to Scuba Diving... (must be accompanied by DM or higher afterwards)

Scuba Diver Apprentice

Full Open Water

By the time you reach FOW, you have mastered neutral bouyancy, basic rescue, basic navigation, basic buddy skills.

THEN you start the "advanced classes". You can rank the FOW diver with stars after this. Each specialty earns you a star. When you complete Deep, Limited Vis, Night, Rescue, Search & Salvage, Boat Handling, Advanced Navigation, Advanced Dive Planning (not deco) and Advanced Science of Diving you earn the right to be a Master Diver. Maybe include a specialty or two to make it ten stars (Cold, Fish ID, Photography, Wreck Survey etc). After MD, you can move onto DM, which will include herding techniques, advanced rescue, legal issues, a rigorous swim test, and a comprehensive exam.

Advanced diver would be replaced by "Technical Diver" ratings for each field.

 

[scubadoguk]

I'd deff like to see divers trained in first aid and rescue skills, padi really should get rid of the aow and do one proper course covering the current ow/ aow/ rescue+efr certs, it will never happen unfortunately.

But YOU could get that style of training! BSAC, there they will teach you rescue, deco and a whole load of stuff time wise 6 months of lectures and pool sessions before open water training! you have to show types of dives and depths conditions and such and all with people who will be of a higher level than yourself to help you along, they use dive marshals and safety out the wazzoo. All for a sports diver cert.
Its horses for courses, people will pay for a holiday fix and cert PADI gives them that easy achievable goals.
BSAC set the standard for their courses years ago and the sport remained very small in the UK very little growth, for years people were intimidated by the time and requirements that were asked to get the most basic novice certification, people who were to give lectures would not turn up or the standard of lecture was so different some were very through some not, pool was very different also we did ditch and dons months of snorkeling and dives where you only snorkel not ABLJ and cylinder(tanks have guns) and DV allowed on those dives you had to snorkel down and touch a divers head at a given depth to get through the snorkel dive portion you had all kind of hoops to jump through.
Sure you turn out a better diver but the point was the drop out rate was huge and people became disillusioned with it all never to return.
As a Instructor you see people want or need a easy fix a measure to show a perceived step up each trip out without the card people will not do any class one that takes months they will not do.
Anyone who reads this is the kind of diver who wants in depth skill development or has a interest beyond the basic so we are the chior are we not?
PADI offers the OW class to get people in it does not however make the diver stay and practice the skill he or she learns PADI cant retain the diver only the store can, people can and should take the advanced OW straight away this allows a novice diver the chance to experience a well run dive to depth also shows navigation beyond the straight out and back and a few other skills dives appropriate for the locality it is taught in, Indiana is not know for marine life and coral so we do buoyancy workshop or search and recovery and so on 4 dives is little enough so what harm can it do compared to not offering any further training?

 

[Walter]

They are advanced divers - you are not instructing them. You should not have to do anything with them. Whatever happened to diver responsibility?

Aren't you forgetting one small point? Dive instruction is, in general, extremely poor. Most divers, even those with their Advanced card, are inadequately prepared to actually dive.

 

[novadiver]

Aren't you forgetting one small point? Dive instruction is, in general, extremely poor. Most divers, even those with their Advanced card, are inadequately prepared to actually dive.

On top of that the " advanced" rating gives a diver a false sence of security. It would be a good Idea if the dive industry had a testing side to it , this way the instuctor didn't give the cert. The diver would have to pass a skills course that didn't have the instuctor involved. Kind of like driving a car. you take a class then you prove to someone else you can do the skills

 

[TekDiveGirl]

Aren't you forgetting one small point? Dive instruction is, in general, extremely poor. Most divers, even those with their Advanced card, are inadequately prepared to actually dive.

Oh absolutely. I won't deny that point one bit that dive instruction is extremely poor in general. I have taken enough people out on tours and assisted enough classes to know exactly what you are saying. It is a sad thing that these instructors are not doing a proper job turning out divers with better skills.

If you are going to agree to be an underwater tour guide you have to be willing to asertain some risk - that is why you have insurance.

You do your best to give a good interview, watch the people like a hawk when they gear up, pre-dive brief, and herd them like cattle if you must.

But I also don't think diving = brain surgery. Most divers really do OK.

Yeah there are tons who dangle crap all over - so I try to keep extra stuff in my bag to help them secure their gear properly. I try to educate them about why they want to secure their things properly. Help them out. Not just snicker at them and then when you get home write about it on the boards about the idiots you say today with all the danglies.

Sure, they don't have perfect buoyancy control like a new DIR-F graduate but most can get through a dive without hurting themselves or anybody else. And have a great time at it. And with more and more experience they will get better at it.

I am not talking about taking these people to the Doria, but they can make it though a basic easy kelp dive (substitute easy Florida warm water dive which is even easier.)

People need the chance to actually get out and dive to hone their skills. No matter what cards they carry in their logbook. Experience is much more relevannt than a C-card.

Kimber

 

[ZenDiver]

I think cavers have this down pat...

Cavern

Intro to Cave

Cave Apprentice

Full Cave

I spend more for each class at this level then I did for my OW. Not only does this address the issue of supervision, but also of compensating the instructor fairly. Well, at least more fairly.

I also see the day when the academics are taught online or through a CD. A sharp instructor will gain all the insight needed into his students during the first ten minutes of a pool session. I can see it broken down into several sections as was stated earlier...

Scuba Academics

Intro to Scuba Diving... (must be accompanied by DM or higher afterwards)

Scuba Diver Apprentice

Full Open Water

By the time you reach FOW, you have mastered neutral bouyancy, basic rescue, basic navigation, basic buddy skills.

THEN you start the "advanced classes". You can rank the FOW diver with stars after this. Each specialty earns you a star. When you complete Deep, Limited Vis, Night, Rescue, Search & Salvage, Boat Handling, Advanced Navigation, Advanced Dive Planning (not deco) and Advanced Science of Diving you earn the right to be a Master Diver. Maybe include a specialty or two to make it ten stars (Cold, Fish ID, Photography, Wreck Survey etc). After MD, you can move onto DM, which will include herding techniques, advanced rescue, legal issues, a rigorous swim test, and a comprehensive exam.

Advanced diver would be replaced by "Technical Diver" ratings for each field.

I like this idea......we just need to figure out how to put it in a neat little package that people will sign up for.....lol. This makes good sense.

 

[diverbrian]

I also see the day when the academics are taught online or through a CD. A sharp instructor will gain all the insight needed into his students during the first ten minutes of a pool session. I can see it broken down into several sections as was stated earlier...

Pete,

I respectfully disagree on this one. There are "experience lessons" that cannot be taught on the best online training program. I also like Mike Ferrarra's idea of showing video of different divers and having the students pick up what is not right. Instructor feedback is important and I feel that it should start before the pool.

My company uses online training right now. It saves time as we have less than 1/2 of the office people that we used to and they teach the courses. The problem... all the workers taking it do is click ahead to the questions, answer them (or redo them), compare notes and don't take the time to do the course. Now, do you really want to see this with OW students?

I'm sure that the Boy Scouts that you teach are much like I was when I was a young Eagle Scout. These kids already have a reason to look up to you (even if they do have their youthful lapses). The average student? Well, most of them have paid their money and expect maximum service for that money. That means classroom time. It is frustrating to deal with divers that have had nearly no classroom time. I can tell them right away. Their gear looks good, their buoyancy is great, and then they don't know why I pulled them up (not physically but with the "thumbs up") when they "had plenty of air" but their dive computer is down to zero on NDL for something planned as a recreational dive. Bonus, classroom gives you a chance to ask that question that my OW instructor asked "Who in here has run out of gas in their car?"

Respectfully,

Brian

 

[The Chairman]

That's OK... it's a big planet! However, if you had the students for more pool and diving time, then there is lots of SI time to ask those questions. Most of what is turned out now as divers would be ranked as more an "intro to Diving".

I am constantly amazed at the compliments most of my ScubaDucks garner on their first dives. Why? I am not rushed to give them diving privelges.They also get weekly training at every meeting. There is also a TON of peer pressure in the water. These guys can be brutal! I would not miss a safety stop in their vicinity, nor would I touch a reef.

But in reality, I don't have to be the one to teach them Boyle's law. That can be done in a textbook. As for picking out what is wrong with other divers... did I mention these girls are brutal? I opt for more time in the water, and less time in the classroom. You can't teach trim and buoyancy in the classroom.

 

[scottfiji]

Personally I like to interview those canidates who wish to take an AOW class from me. I really like to dive with them before they enter the course. I can then evaluate their skills and see if they are ready for AOW or have they exceeded the AOW skills and should be thinking of Scuba Rescue or Master Diver or beyond.

Why does it matter if they have exceeded the AOW skills? They still have to take AOW in order to take Rescue or Master, regardless of their skills, correct? But then would it just be a waste of money for these people? Or do you give them an AOW class for free if they sign up for rescue and master diver?

 

[Walter]

They still have to take AOW in order to take Rescue or Master, regardless of their skills, correct?

Nope.