OW v. AOW

[ZenDiver]

Here is one for you, The other weekend I am hosting a weekend trip for advanced divers or ones doing Adv checkouts. I have two divers that are dive buddies. Both are advanced, been diving a few years, have 50+ dives. So far so good right. They meet many of the requirements so far that have defined an "advanced" diver. I did not train them in either basic or advanced. As the trip leader what would you do with these two guys?

 

[ZenDiver]

more info.....6 dives planned, 3 wrecks, 3 reefs, one to 80+ feet, two are night dives, 3 are drift dives, most will require navigational activities.

 

[pilot fish]

more info.....6 dives planned, 3 wrecks, 3 reefs, one to 80+ feet, two are night dives, 3 are drift dives, most will require navigational activities.

OK, I'll bite. If they show up and pay the fee give them the card?

 

[ZenDiver]

OK, I'll bite. If they show up and pay the fee give them the card?

No...they are advanced already. What would you do as trip leader, not necessarily an instructor to ensure they have the know how to do these dives prior to the trip? All you know is that they have an advanced card and 50+ dives.

 

[pilot fish]

No...they are advanced already. What would you do as trip leader, not necessarily an instructor to ensure they have the know how to do these dives prior to the trip? All you know is that they have an advanced card and 50+ dives.

I'd probably just ask each one his prior dive experience, ask to see their signed log and observe, observe, observe. Since you are doing a deep dive and night dive I'd say you'd be ok but I would not allow any wreck penetration. That's my meager 2c

 

[Keysdrifter454]

I want to apologize to Keysdiver for some of my remarks in an earlier post.

The intent of my post to Keysdiver was not to attack him, but to point out that he was the first to throw a jab at Don and that if he was going to do that he should be prepared to accept the consequences. However, I was incorrect as was pointed out to me. I had read a reposted quote to be an original post and falsly accused Keys of making the firt attack and insult on Don. In reality, it was Don who had actually done this, and I truly apologize for that. I should not have even gotten into the battle that was between them.

As seems to be overlooked in that same post, I agreed that Keys had alot of good points. However, I maintain that I still have a differing opinion on some of the things he said, and I am entitled to that...just as he or anyone else are entitled to their own opinions. If I said or implied that he was unsafe, I also apologize.

Unsafe was a harsh term for what I intended to convey (I admit I did a horrible job of conveying my message). However, it is my opinion that 10 dives in one day is excessive (although none of my business) and that was the example I was referring to. I should have been more clear.

Like Cancun Mark, I do still teach the tables as a back-up method and will continue to do so. At the same time, I encourage students to dive with a computer and to fully understand it's use and the general theory behind their particular computer. If they do not understand at least the basic concept of the computer, it really is not an advantage to them.

Keys, I understand that decompression theory and dive theory is in fact evolving everyday, but I am not ready to discount the tables as worthless, yet. I agree that computers are much more accurate and should be the norm, but I maintain that the tables are a safe back-up in case of computer failure. I also agree that your computer is among the latest and greatest...my point was that computers can and do fail...no matter how much you pay for them or what technology is used in them. Tables are still a safe and conservative back-up. I am not saying they should replace computers at all.

My apology is sincere and my intention is never to "bash" anyone. Likewise I hate to see when others are doing it to each other, and I need to learn to just stay out of other people's battles.

Peace everyone, especially to Keysdiver.

Apology accepted and appreciated.

I apologize to everyone, particularly to Christi.

My views are less than popular, especially in DIR oriented boards.

I express them passionately.

Especially on a moderated board, I tend to choose my responses with great care.

I tend to treat people the way they treat me.

Anyone who wants to tell me what they really think, as Steve implies, well, that's what PMs are for.

Just don't cry when you get what you give.

If you want to prove me wrong, like Steve does, try a little fact with the invective.

Steve doesn't realize what a disservice he's doing to others.

He may not change -my- mind, but he can help a few of the other 750 divers that viewed this thread.

Right now he just sounds like a petulant ten year old.

But views differ and evolve.

I was once kicked from this board under the previous regime for advocating solo diving.

Now it has its own forum:

Solo Divers
A no-troll area for divers to discuss this growing trend in our sport. Whether you do it by choice or to facilitate other divers, there are issues to resolve.
Sub-Forums: Accessing This Forum


People and ideas change.

I just ask that you argue me down, instead of shouting me down.

Again, my apologies to anyone who's feelings were hurt.

 

[Albion]

Something that really bothers me is when I read in these forums people stating that they didn't learn anything from AOW. That's not a reflection on the student, but rather on the instructor who didn't put the effort into the class. AOW, more than any other course, should be tailored to the needs and experience level of the student taking the class.

I personnally think this is due to taking AOW directly after OW. People havent got the basic skills down and are too busy messing around with bouyancy to be taking in the new facts for AOW

 

[pilot fish]

I personnally think this is due to taking AOW directly after OW. People havent got the basic skills down and are too busy messing around with bouyancy to be taking in the new facts for AOW

EXACTLY

 

[SteveDiver]

The question of how long someone should wait before taking their AOW is ridiculus. I think the one that raises the issue are trying to make it appear that the AOW course is some major feat. It is simple take it when you feel ready and comfortable. Just because you have an AOW cert does not mean that you are some great diver. It means that you can go deep and have learned further skills that build on the basics some of which are the same. I am currently in Oahu Hawaii where I took my AOW course without it my diving would be restricted. Most of the dives here are deep dives. People with an AOW should not have a false sense of security either. Being a newly AOW diver I ensure that I always have a instructor or divemaster with me on my dives. The over confident diver is the one that is likely to get into trouble.

 

[ChillyWaters]

I think the one that raises the issue are trying to make it appear that the AOW course is some major feat.

AOW was pretty freak'n easy. Sure we learned a lot, but come on, it's not difficult. Again, I took it after a several year layoff, and with only a couple post-OW dives. I did a single pre course dive, just to get a feel for the water. Then I jumped into the course.

Much of what you learn you don't "master" during the few dives you do during the AOW classes!!! It is stuff for you to think about and apply as you go on. You don't become a master navigator in one dive, nor master your buoyancy in one dive, etc. But learning these things as early as possible helps you become a better diver.

- ChillyWaters