OW diver below 60 feet?

[texdiveguy]

Some good responses so far to the OP's question in #1.

The sad thing that we all should remember is that a fair number of divers are hurt or die during dives that are well within their training/certf. level and comfort zone of experience.

Follow your gut feelings....as pointed out above refrain from trust-me//follow-me dives!

Take gradual steps in your dive experience and profiles. Remembering your 'age' will also play into your dive planning, not that 60 is old but it does require additional conservatism as it appears the OP is doing.

Enjoy yourself....be safe and keep diving.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I got my PADI OW certification, and on my first dive after the course, the DM said we'd go down to 80 feet. I said that I only had OW, which he knew because this was the same place I'd just taken my OW course, and he said that's all right, no problem. I thought, maybe it's because a DM can take a diver deeper than that diver is allowed to go when just diving with another OW diver as a buddy.

On my next (and only other) dive trip, the dive shop owner said we'd be diving to 80 feet, and I again expressed my concern, as above, and he said, don't worry, no problem. We were always diving with a DM (maximum 6 divers per DM).

My question: was it really stupid of me to dive to 80 feet? Does the presence of a DM make the difference? FWIW, both times were in the Caribbean, warm water, excellent visibility, daytime dives.

Ask yourself this question ... if your dive buddy came up to you at 80 feet and gave you an out-of-air signal, do you feel competent in your ability to get both of you to the surface safely while sharing air from your tank?

If you can answer that question with a confident "yes", then it was the right thing to do. If you are unsure, or feel that is beyond your current ability, then the right thing to do would be to stay shallower until you become more comfortable with your skills.

No one but you can really answer that question ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[frankc420]

Ask yourself this question ... if your dive buddy came up to you at 80 feet and gave you an out-of-air signal, do you feel competent in your ability to get both of you to the surface safely while sharing air from your tank?

If you can answer that question with a confident "yes", then it was the right thing to do. If you are unsure, or feel that is beyond your current ability, then the right thing to do would be to stay shallower until you become more comfortable with your skills.

No one but you can really answer that question ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob is right (as usual),

I've been on a dive in 80-90' of water and had my buddy OOA, unless you've practiced this with a buddy from this depth, it's not as easy as one would expect. I was calm the entire time and followed the steps that I was taught during my OW training. However, my buddy wasn't as calm. I cannot say that I would have been calm if I were in his shoes, but who is to say I wouldn't have reacted the same way?

My point, even at 60' you may not know what to do, so if your going to 80', you for sure need to know what YOU would do if you or your buddy were to signal OOA or have a problem that wasn't easily resolved. Practice your skills with your buddy in shallow water before going deep, that's what we do. If after practicing your skills and you feel confident in yourself AND your buddys skills, your decision to go to 80' should be an easy call.

 

[Zieg]

Please people, get over this 60' vs 80' crap. The only real difference between 60 and 80 ft is between your ears. It you can handle running out of air at 60ft then you can handle it at 80'. If you can't handle it at 80 then you sure can't handle it at 60' and should stay out of the water.

 

[offthewall1]

I got my PADI OW certification, and on my first dive after the course, the DM said we'd go down to 80 feet. I said that I only had OW, which he knew because this was the same place I'd just taken my OW course, and he said that's all right, no problem. I thought, maybe it's because a DM can take a diver deeper than that diver is allowed to go when just diving with another OW diver as a buddy.

On my next (and only other) dive trip, the dive shop owner said we'd be diving to 80 feet, and I again expressed my concern, as above, and he said, don't worry, no problem. We were always diving with a DM (maximum 6 divers per DM).

My question: was it really stupid of me to dive to 80 feet? Does the presence of a DM make the difference? FWIW, both times were in the Caribbean, warm water, excellent visibility, daytime dives.

There are many avenues to travel with this answer...

First and foremost, there are no Scuba Police monitoring your diving and there are currently no laws on the books in the United States or most other countries pertaining to Scuba limitations. The 60ft depth is an arbitrary number dreamed up by lawyers and industry insiders to do two things;

1. Protect dive instructors, shops and agencies from liability should you exceed your training limit. In other words, go to 80 feet and get the bends, everyone is absolved from liability because you broke the limit you were trained too. A clever way to self protect by all involved.
2. A way to make you go back into dive shops for additional training AKA spend more money for "Deep" certification.

Reality Check: If you paid attention in class, learned your dive tables and or how to use your computer... and you truly understand your tables and/or computer, you are quite capable of diving to any depth within the accepted recreational diving limit of 130 ft.

The bigger question is are you personally ready for that challenge? Are you prepared mentally? Do you have the proper equipment for deeper diving? Are you self dependent or are you placing your life in someone elses hands - such as the DM?

My first dive after certification was to 135ft. I didn't really think about it... because back then, 130ft was the accepted limit and it was what we were trained to. This was before the lawyers got involved and the training agencies got greedy.

If you feel comfortable at 80ft... you're likely ready for it. The decision of how deep to go rests entirely on your shoulders. Was the DM smart to take you there? He traveled outside of his legal coverage zone when he led you down there and told you it was OK. He could be fired from his job... and wouldn't have been covered by his insurer had something happened to you... which means you wouldn't have gotten a nickel from a broke DM. Maybe from the operator... who would have been fighting saying he didn't approve of that depth... and you knew full well you weren't qualified to go there... a legal quagmire.

In any event... I'm not recommending you do anything but stay within your training limitation of 60ft... then I might me liable... but as far as what you decide... it is entirely up to you... because you are the one that lives... or dies from the consequences. Don't let DM's make that choice for you.

 

[divestoclimb]

Certifications always have a couple key phrases in them:
"...dive without supervision..."

and

"...in conditions similar to those in which trained"

I think of these two phrases as an either/or. If you're in conditions similar to where you've been trained (or in which you have enough previous experience), you shouldn't need a guide to supervise you (emphasis on should--as others have said this is all dependent on your comfort level). If the conditions are not similar, such as in this case where you're going deeper than you have before, a competent guide should be able to help you conduct it safely. What defines "competent" here depends on what conditions you're going to. Any divemaster with a good briefing should be able to take a diver with good basic OW skills on a 80 ft Caribbean dive, but it would take a tech instructor (w/ classroom time and other dives) to take that diver on a 150 ft Atlantic ocean dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Please people, get over this 60' vs 80' crap. The only real difference between 60 and 80 ft is between your ears. It you can handle running out of air at 60ft then you can handle it at 80'. If you can't handle it at 80 then you sure can't handle it at 60' and should stay out of the water.

Not exactly. Problems are magnified by depth ... both physically and mentally. Diving is as much one as the other. So even if the difference is "between your ears", it is still a very real difference.

But it is ... of course ... more than that ...

You go through your gas faster as you go deeper.
Ascents to the surface take longer as you go deeper.
The effects of pressure induce more severe changes on your body as you go deeper.
The effects of nitrogen become more pronounced, which may make a difference between recognizing a problem or not and doing something about it before it leads to a more serious situation.

And yes ... especially for the newer diver ... increased depth often leads to increased stress. And underwater, stress is not your friend.

Even in technical training, they will stress that 20 feet in depth can make a difference in mental and physical preparedness ... my instructor was adamant about when I was ready to go from 150 to 170 ... and my next class instructor was adamant about when I was ready to go from 200 to 225. A lot of it IS in your mind ... but a great deal of diving is about mental and emotional preparedness. It can mean the difference between having fun and scaring the bejeebers out of yourself.

Take it slow ... the big deal about depth is that at any level of experience, you should first understand why you want to go that deep. Then you should make sure you're mentally and physically prepared for it. Taking it in steps, and making progressively deeper dives to adapt to those depths is a great way to do that.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[texdiveguy]

I got my PADI OW certification, and on my first dive after the course, the DM said we'd go down to 80 feet. I said that I only had OW, which he knew because this was the same place I'd just taken my OW course, and he said that's all right, no problem. I thought, maybe it's because a DM can take a diver deeper than that diver is allowed to go when just diving with another OW diver as a buddy.

............................................

My question: was it really stupid of me to dive to 80 feet?

...........................................

Does the presence of a DM make the difference?

OK....... let me address your first part of the question: if your 'first' o/w dive after completing your PADI O/W course was this 80fsw dive with the DM....then yes it was probably a little soon to be engaging that deep dive. *The DM was in error in saying all was OK, as he has know way of insuring this.....so he was out of bounds in telling you this.

Were you stupid to do the dive.....you may of made a miss judgment at your slim experience in diving--yes.

Does the presence of a DM with you on this dive really make a difference--no. There is no assurance regardless of whom you are diving that just because they are DM/Instr. status that this is ok to dive to those depths. It all comes back to your experience and dive time....remember you are only as safe as you can self rescue yourself....dive as if you are on your own even in the presence of a group or buddy.

 

[shark_tamer]

I have learned and witnessed in my rescue course that when hell breaks loose under water, things get out of hand rapidly.

The deeper you descend, the greater the risks are for you to safely respond to any potential problem for you, your buddy or any other diver in your group if you are not properly trained or experienced.

Food for thoughts: In a burning house, would you rather be 10 feet any from the nearest door of 100 feet !!!

Dive safe !

 

[irishsquid]

.....On that first 80-foot dive, my buddy was one of the co-owners of the resort. That increased my comfort level. However, I do not feel that I could execute a controlled emergency ascent safely from 80 feet. That reduced my comfort level. I looked up, and free air was a long way away!
...It's good to hear the consensus that I was not acting stupidly. Conditions were certainly ideal, I was with good people, and only a little uncomfortable, at first, at the thought that I was too deep to reach the surface on my own if my equipment failed. But then, how many deep divers could reach the surface safely if their equipment failed? Few, I think.

Daniel

I don't mean to try and read into the way you phrased this, so my apologies up front if I mis-interpreted you. The statements above concern me for the following reasons:
1. At 80ft., the CESA is one of the last ditch options and I would have prepped and
planned the dive with my buddy. Granted, things do go way south and a CESA
may have been an option of last resort, but to use a "doable" CESA as gauge of
comfort is not wise.
2. Some folks could do a CESA from 80+, some can't do one from 30. Even if an
80ft CESA is doable, it won't be a "safe ascent rate", safety stop will be
skipped, and you're set up at that time for some possible problems.
3. I would work on gas planning, dive buddy skills, ease into it and not depend on
one person who is basically keeping an eye out for 4-5 people.
With all that said, you did get some experience, all came out good, you enjoy diving, and your posting on SB. You can get alot of good advice here. I hope this came out the way I intended. If I got anything wrong, the rest of y'all steer it straight.