over weighting death

[Cacia]

I feel that, in general, operators are not willing enough to cancel dives when the weather conditions warrant it.

And...the clients are "in love with the plan" or comitted financially, etc.

This also contributes to a dangerous situation. I have often been the only one to opt out on drifts when I was not convinced the boat could easily find us. Once people have paid, the operator has a responsibility that the finances don't pressure people to dive in unsafe conditions.

Kids vary so much...I have one who dived Portlock drift on her third OW dive. My other one could easily drown playing with my weight belt in the pool. They are only 24 months apart...

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

I have gone with Ocean Divers a number of times and have found them to be professional and helpful.

The fact that this diver 'said' she had too much weight indicates that the regulator was out of her mouth...a feeling of being overweighted is no concern if you have a working regulator in your mouth, you simply inflate your bc as you sink, come back up and reconfigure. If your reg is out and you feel like you are heading down, finding the reg, the tag line or the inflation button all at the same time can be cause for panic.Being somewhat of a walrus entering the water, I have had both my reg and my mask dislodged on a giant step even when holding them in place. It's nice to have the bc inflated at that point.

As for panic, while waiting at the line for my buddy to jump in several years ago, I removed my regulator to say something to another diver. The water was calm, but just as I inhaled, a small wave hit me in the mouth and some cold seawater got into my larynx and it spasmed. I put my reg in and started sputtering and wheezing badly. I felt like I was suffocating. I almost passed out trying to draw air from the reg into my spasmed airway. The divemaster saw me and reached down and pulled me to the ladder. I needed a full five or ten minutes to compose myself before my throat opened up and I could dive.

Such larynx spasms can be fatal (dry drowning). Thus, on a sunny calm day with the situation under control, by simply removing my reg and getting hit with an unexpected wave during inhalation put me into a near panic. Had I not had my bc inflated and been near the boat, I might have been in real trouble.

 

[jbd]

As for panic, while waiting at the line for my buddy to jump in several years ago, I removed my regulator to say something to another diver. The water was calm, but just as I inhaled, a small wave hit me in the mouth and some cold seawater got into my larynx and it spasmed. I put my reg in and started sputtering and wheezing badly. I felt like I was suffocating. I almost passed out trying to draw air from the reg into my spasmed airway. The divemaster saw me and reached down and pulled me to the ladder. I needed a full five or ten minutes to compose myself before my throat opened up and I could dive.

Such larynx spasms can be fatal (dry drowning). Thus, on a sunny calm day with the situation under control, by simply removing my reg and getting hit with an unexpected wave during inhalation put me into a near panic.

Thank you shakeybrainsurgeon for posting your experience. This is the point I was trying to make in my earlier response. I really suspect that this is the mechanism of this fatality.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Agreed. I'd be better with the system if they said that parents had to have experience diving before their kids could come along, including rescue certs.

I think that all else being equal, parent should be able to make decisions for their children without interference. However, given the minimal training and misleading advertising, things are not equal and my opinion is that they are literally conned into making poor decisions because they trust "the experts".

One girl comes to mind who passed through my shop. The 14 year old daughter is far and a way a more supperior diver than her father. The father is uncomfortable in the water, which makes him worry about his daughter, who is doing just fine. I can see the situation getting very ugly if the father ever had an issue in the water.

I've refused a number of child students, not because I thought I'd have trouble with the child but because I had dived with the parents and my conscience would never allow me to send the child out diving with them.

In one case, I told the father that I'd consider it if he would do some more diving with me and maybe take a rescue class. The guy was pretty bad in the water. He kept putting it all off and finally just marched into the shop and proclaimed that he needed his daughter (11 years old) certified right away. I just refused and he got pretty mad and stomped out.

Naturally he just went off to some resort and she got certified anyway. I ran into him one day and he was telling me how well she did and how Imissed out. About then, I realized that he just didn't get what I was trying to tell him all that time and I came out and told him that it was never her skills that I was worried about but rather his because he didn't have any skill.

Shortly after that I just started refusing to even discuss training children that young no matter who the parents were. As far as I'mn concerned a parent can take their 10 year old diving if they want but I'd prefer that they become an instructor, do the training themselves and leave me out of it.

 

[Missdirected]

Since we know the kids and their moms cert level aren't really relevant here and we are going off-topic, I took the liberty of beginning a new thread. If anyone would care to post their opinions, I'd like to hear them. The thread is here: http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=194999

 

[CardiacKate]

I have 27 years experience as ER R.N. .....don't understand how paramedics are allowed to call "time of death" and not transport a patient to an Emergency Dept. where a medical doctor determines TOD. Everywhere I worked EMS had to transport a patient using full code procedures until a certified ER doc would make the call to stop.

 

[smokey braden]

cardiackate,
welcome to this board.

 

[CardiacKate]

I was on the 2nd Ocean Diver boat that picked up the majority of divers from Molasses Reef. several dive operators at the reef saw/heard the distress call and banded together quickly to render aid. The mooring balls on Molasses are all close together. It was a calm day so divers could easily swim to the boats that were aiding.
This kind of assistance is heartening for divers coming to the Keys. What is worrisome to me is Monroe County EMS personnel declaring the patient dead on the shore before transporting to an Emergency Dept. for a physician to make the call.

 

[northen diver]

I have 27 years experience as ER R.N. .....don't understand how paramedics are allowed to call "time of death" and not transport a patient to an Emergency Dept. where a medical doctor determines TOD. Everywhere I worked EMS had to transport a patient using full code procedures until a certified ER doc would make the call to stop.

I wouldnt take to much stock in what the newspaper said about the medics calling the TOD. They rarely get their stories correct. However, according to the NREMT, there are some instances where a medic can call a TOD. If memory serves me correct, these will be extreme cases such as decapitations, which I realize this instance dont apply here.

 

[maj75]

I was on the 2nd Ocean Diver boat that picked up the majority of divers from Molasses Reef. several dive operators at the reef saw/heard the distress call and banded together quickly to render aid. The mooring balls on Molasses are all close together. It was a calm day so divers could easily swim to the boats that were aiding.
This kind of assistance is heartening for divers coming to the Keys. What is worrisome to me is Monroe County EMS personnel declaring the patient dead on the shore before transporting to an Emergency Dept. for a physician to make the call.

I agree. The conditions in the area were benign. I know at least one 10 yr old kid that was doing OW training at Molassas that day. The conditions were nothing out of the ordinary for Molassas Reef. The actions of the dive operators in the area were appropriate in response to this tragedy.