over weighting death

[The Chairman]

But what it takes to reach the point of panic is almost completely dependent on training and skill. If you don't believe me just throw a nonswimmer into the deep end of the pool.

Knowing how to INDUCE panic does not mean you know how all panic is induced. That you think you know this is mere hubris.

Panic is a part of our atavistic reflexes. It can rear it's ugly head and bite with little or no warning. That two instructors keep trying to deny it's existence at this level only serves to show you how subtle and dangerous it really is.

Catherine, a rescue diver was right there beside here and there was a medical doctor present on the dive boat who initiated immediate CPR to no avail.

Training is incredibly important. But training and technology can not prevent every death. It is hard to look into that empty pit of our mortality and realise that sometimes, the very best that can be done is simply not enough.

 

[dave4868]

I've been following this whole thing...

what is the lesson, exactly? I need some help..

The lesson learned? Apparently, it's not the same lesson for everyone.

For me, it reinforces my humble belief that we can't always control everything despite our best efforts.

Dave C

 

[Cacia]

It is hard to look into that empty pit of our mortality and realise that sometimes,

yes, I agree with that. ...that is about all I got from this, which is why I was doublechecking...thanks.

 

[Walter]

okay.

Anything obvious that could have saved her?

Impossible to say without facts.

so...are you saying she was not trained enough to be where she was?

No, he's making a general statement about training and preventing panic.

The eyewitness said she was well-trained and experienced.

True, but he did not define his terms. We have no idea what her training was or what her experience was. One previously successful dive on Molassas Reef could be considered experienced. I'd guess she was more experienced than that, but I don't know. What is "well trained?" Was she an OW diver? Advanced? Cave? What did the training include?

There are missing facts.

Most of them

 

[Walter]

Training is incredibly important. But training and technology can not prevent every death. It is hard to look into that empty pit of our mortality and realise that sometimes, the very best that can be done is simply not enough.

Absolutely correct. We don't know if it applies in this instance, but it is true none the less.

 

[Thalassamania]

Panic kills quickly and without notice or defference to training.

Knowing how to INDUCE panic does not mean you know how all panic is induced. That you think you know this is mere hubris.

Panic is a part of our atavistic reflexes. It can rear it's ugly head and bite with little or no warning. That two instructors keep trying to deny it's existence at this level only serves to show you how subtle and dangerous it really is.

...

Training is incredibly important. But training and technology can not prevent every death. It is hard to look into that empty pit of our mortality and realise that sometimes, the very best that can be done is simply not enough.

You're trying awful hard not to see the point, it's not that obtuse. If you throw a non-swimmer into the deep end of the pool what happens? Panic. If you throw me into the deep end of the pool, what happens? I get wet. What's the difference? Training and experience. Ipso facto: "Panic kills quickly and without notice or defference to training." is horse puckey, training can clearly make a difference.

 

[The Chairman]

You're trying awful hard not to see the point, it's not that obtuse.

You, however overlook the obvious with such ease. I am so jealous!

training can clearly make a difference.

Not in all cases and unfortunately, not in THIS case.

 

[derwoodwithasherwood]

Many years ago I was doing a 200' rope ascent in free air. I had extensive experience under my belt. I had tied the anchors myself, it was new high-abrasion rope and I had provided ample additional abrasion protection. For no possible justifiable reason I was suddenly convinced that the rope had worn to it's last couple of strands and would snap off at any moment, like something out of a movie. It's the only time I can ever recall a feeling of true panic welling up inside of me. For one brief moment in time I was utterly convinced I was about to plunge to my death and it took everything I had to retain my focus and continue. (Even then my movements were deliberately fluid, so as to avoid any possible sway on a friction point!)

Of course, when I got to the top the rope was just fine. The abrasion protection wasn't even scuffed. My silly and irrational fear was, well, silly and irrational. The result of an over-active imagination on an otherwise routine climb.

I wonder what could have happened to me if that had occured under water instead of mid-air?

 

[Walter]

Not in all cases and unfortunately, not in THIS case.

How do you know? You might be correct, but you can't know. We do not have any facts that can bring us to this or any other conclusion. It could be this is a case where no amount of training would have prevented the panic, OTOH, it may be a case where more or better training would have saved her life. We just don't know. We don't know anything about her training and we don't know anything about what happened.

 

[Walter]

Many years ago I was doing a 200' rope ascent in free air. I had extensive experience under my belt. I had tied the anchors myself, it was new high-abrasion rope and I had provided ample additional abrasion protection. For no possible justifiable reason I was suddenly convinced that the rope had worn to it's last couple of strands and would snap off at any moment, like something out of a movie. It's the only time I can ever recall a feeling of true panic welling up inside of me. For one brief moment in time I was utterly convinced I was about to plunge to my death and it took everything I had to retain my focus and continue. (Even then my movements were deliberately fluid, so as to avoid any possible sway on a friction point!)

Of course, when I got to the top the rope was just fine. The abrasion protection wasn't even scuffed. My silly and irrational fear was, well, silly and irrational. The result of an over-active imagination on an otherwise routine climb.

I wonder what could have happened to me if that had occured under water instead of mid-air?

I don't know what would have happened under water, but your training obviously prevented you from panicking in mid air. It welled up, but you did focus on the task at hand and stopped the panic from actually happening. I've been close to panic a couple of times, but my training helped me keep my head and I did not panic.