Out of Air on Final Open Water Cert. Dive

[cerich]

getting you buddies attention and making the clenched fist on the chest with movement works well I've found.....

I then don't need to know exactly how much gas they have left but I know to keep my eye on them and be ready to deploy octo/long hose.

500 psi (in a 80) is plenty for 99% to do a 3 min safety stop at 10-15ft.

The OP did well considering his instructor obviously doesn't get it....

 

[Ayisha]

Love that 1-hand numbering, neophyte. Thanks!

 

[HilaryRN71]

This link here shows what I consider to be the easiest, least ambiguous system for conveying numbers underwater.

There's no counting involved (as in flashing fingers repeatedly where it's easy to miss a "flash" or two and see a totally different number) and you can do it with one hand which might just be very convenient depending on the situation. 500psi would be a 5 and two "0"s, for example.

I too have had to overcome a tendency to want to fix my own problems myself, which can be a good thing to a point, but when you're down there teamed or buddied up with others, the best (and very often safest) thing to do is act like it.

Lastly, it sure sounds like you kept a clear head and handled things awfully well for having to deal with so much during your OW chekout.

Well done,

Adam

Oh yeah, you'll probably hear it a lot around here, but a long hose with your backup on a bungee necklace really is a GREAT setup in all sorts of ways, in my opinion.

Jeez that is confusing!!! If it works for you and your buddy...good...but damn. I'm inherently lazy and that looks like WAY too much work. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been at or below 500 psi in the last 50 dives...but this highlights a good point....TALK WITH YOUR BUDDY WHEN PLANNING THE DIVE. Let then know what your hand signals are. I misread my buddies signal once...and it was a buddy I'd been diving with dozens of times. He was telling me 1500 and I read it as 500. I hightailed my butt (and his) from 90 feet to our safety stop..only to surface with him asking, "What the hell are you doing??" Oops. He was wonderfully sweet about it...as he always is (Love ya MFDB!!!) but stilll.....good to get these things figured out ahead of time.

 

[neophyte]

I hate that system! It's confusing as hell. Rather than reinventing the wheel, I stick with the ASL numbers (except I use 1 - 0 for 10).

ASL numbers are also 1 handed and even easier to use. Much less confusion than the reinvented wheel.

ASL numbers.

Isn't it funny how different people are? I'm glad there are enough different systems that we can all find one that works for us and the people we dive with. I've even read someone here (Thalassamania <sp?>?) referring to signaling in binary. I'm not going to try to convince anyone to use a system that doesn't work for them.

This is a discussion board though, so, with the above said; I've never had anyone suggest pre-dive that we employ either ASL or binary numbers. Flashing fives, using two hands and (the most common, at least among people I dive with) the system I linked to are what I've seen/heard brought up.

You referred twice to reinventing the wheel, which I interpret as overlooking a simple, elegant, effective and long standing solution to a particular problem in favor of something newer and (most likely) more complex and/or inferior.

If either of the systems here are doing that, it seems to me it's ASL. We basically agree on 1-5 (although you've got the thumb-out vs. thumb-in thing with 3, I suspect a lot of people just do whichever comes naturally to them and we can agree that overall they're pretty similar). These are basically the same signs we've all used since we held up 3 fingers in response to "how old are you?".

In the system I suggested you then just make it really clear there's a distinction by turning your hand around and rotating it 90 degrees, and then simply keep doing what's worked so well already. It's ASL that says the old 1-5 need improving upon with that all that thumb grabbing.

Jeez that is confusing!!! If it works for you and your buddy...good...but damn. I'm inherently lazy and that looks like WAY too much work. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been at or below 500 psi in the last 50 dives...but this highlights a good point....TALK WITH YOUR BUDDY WHEN PLANNING THE DIVE. Let then know what your hand signals are.

I can't argue with you about whether or not you find it confusing, we are all so different. On the other hand, I don't really understand how it's WAY too much work compared to any other system.

In actual use unneeded digits drop off, much as they would in speech. 5 for 500 is pretty common, 2 and 5 for 2500. But you can get always get specific if you need/want to.

I agree that the most important thing is to talk with whoever you're diving with and make sure you're on the same page. However, I still remember just how happy I was when someone finally showed me this system instead of the (IMO) ridiculous 5-5-5-5-5 thing I'd been taught in OW, so I'm happy to throw this out there and defend it.

So there're my two cents, thanks for reading.

 

[lamont]

Jeez that is confusing!!! If it works for you and your buddy...good...but damn. I'm inherently lazy and that looks like WAY too much work.

That numbering system is pretty easy, and it is designed to be one-handed so that you can hold onto an upline while signalling and so that you can signal large numbers without having to count up to them by 5s...

 

[cummings66]

I personally like that system of numbering. It takes no effort to get it, I mean 30 seconds and it's down, you might need to initially count starting from 6 to understand 2 sideways fingers are 7, but it takes no time to do. 0 - 5 are obvious, 6 - 9 are done sideways and it's not tough. There are but 4 numbers to learn in other words. The same argument can be said of ASL. Honestly I'd think we'd all be better off if we used ASL for everything instead of reinventing the wheel. ASL has been around a very long time and all these other number systems have tried to do their own thing, even the hand signals are unique to diving. It doesn't need to be that way, plus you could talk with the deaf if you knew it.

Personally with dive boat buddies I tap the SPG and show, no confusion. You can't believe how many different ways people come up with to signal pressure and I find the pre dive brief a good place to say we're flashing the SPG.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

ASL numbers are also 1 handed and even easier to use. Much less confusion than the reinvented wheel.

ASL numbers.

I dunno Walter ... if you gave me a "10" signal in ASL, I might begin my ascent ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Walter]

I dunno Walter ... if you gave me a "10" signal in ASL, I might begin my ascent ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I might also, that's why I said:

I hate that system! It's confusing as hell. Rather than reinventing the wheel, I stick with the ASL numbers (except I use 1 - 0 for 10).

You referred twice to reinventing the wheel, which I interpret as overlooking a simple, elegant, effective and long standing solution to a particular problem in favor of something newer and (most likely) more complex and/or inferior.

If either of the systems here are doing that, it seems to me it's ASL.

ASL was developed around 1815 - 17. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cave divers develop their numbering system sometime after that?

BTW, check out the US Navy Diving Manual (Chapter 5) for the number system they use.

 

[Jasonmh]

Seems to me that either way there is some learning that has to be done (unless you and your buddy already know ASL of course). Look at just the number 6 and 9 on the ASL page. If someone flashed that at me I'd likely think it was a 2 and 3. With the hand sideways, I don't have that confusion. It doesn't matter much which method you choose, as long as you and your buddy agree.

 

[vladimir]

Much less confusion than the reinvented wheel.

Neophyte's hand signals would be indelibly ingrained in your memory if you had spent years in commodities pits.