Out of Air at 84 ft

[Rick Inman]

Does your buddy have enough air to get both of you up from 84 feet? Do either of you have *any* idea how much air it will take? What do you do when you're at 25 feet and suddenly both OOA?

Now THAT is really the point, I would think. If you're at 84' and you know both how much air you & your buddy have at any point in time, and you know how much air it would take to get either of you home on the other's gas, the chances of you being separated beyond reach is about zero. We're talking rec diving here, so we're talking one tank, and both divers have made a plan which includes a dive to 84' or more, and a rock bottom and both are tracking these things during the dive.
The only other way is, you just jump in and start diving, no one knows where they're going or what the turn pressure is and they're not communicating during the dive and diver A is way over here and diver B is way over there and diver A runs out of air and says, gee, where's my buddy? Wow, he's way over there. Hummm, maybe I should just head for the sky.
Also, many people have said something like, well, just don't dive with that bad buddy. Wait a minute. Why are YOU 30' away from your buddy who might need your assistance? As someone said, it really takes TWO bad buddies for this to happen. Even one good buddy will stay with (and communicate with) the other. If I dive with someone I can't manage to stay close to, I will call the dive. Period. Parameters are established at the beginning of the dive. You signal, slow down, or the two parallel fingers meaning side-by-side. If the buddy doesn't comply, you don't head down to 85'.
Oh yeah. But if it does happen, my suggestion is to head for the surface. With buddies like this, who knows what kind of mess will result from trying to actually perform a basic skill like sharing air. Might result in two dead.
I have been guilty of being the bad buddy in the past, and the better diver had NO qualms will setting me straight. Now (hopefully) I am a better diver for it.

 

[Quarrior]

snip....

AMEN!!!!!!!! Thanks for muddeling this confusion with some common sense.

 

[Nemrod]

There are a few rules from the early days of diving that probably apply here.

Rule 1---"Do not dive more than twice the depth to which you can free dive."

If you can free dive 15 feet then your max depth should be 30 feet. If you can free dive 60 feet then your max depth should be 120 feet. This is a long held rule which went out the window when a certain agency came along. It makes sense too. If you can free dive 30 feet that is a trip of 60 feet so therefore one should be able to handle an emergency ascent from 60 feet on scuba. Yeah, if people were to adhere to this rule there would likely be fewer divers.

Rule 2---"The max. distance from point of entry for a diver shall be no further than that diver can comfortably swim on the surface laden with gear."

If you can only swim two laps with gear in the pool then that is how far you should venture from the anchor line etc.

Rule 3---"Rule of 1/3s. One thrid air out, one third air back, one third in reserve. "Back" is back to the boat or beach including ascent."

Regardless of what a certain agency says, these rules go a long ways towards keeping a diver within comfortable and safe limits. N

 

[wreckferret146]

Were you ever a new diver? Slinging pony's is not exactly part of the OW curriculum. There are many divers out there who are not familiar with the concept. No need to question their credentials because they are asking questions and trying to learn.

Nothing irritates me more on these forums than when "experienced" divers berate and talk down to those who are new divers. What a way to welcome them to the sport. There is a big difference in disagreeing, educating and talking down to them and treatng them as inferior human beings because they haven't been diving as long as you have. As much as I disagree with PF on many points, I commend him for trying to learn as much as he can and taking a proactive approach to his diving career.

I believe he was clarifying whether the poster was asking about a "Spare Air" or a true pony bottle I believe. The "Spare Air" canisters are a joke. If you are going to carry a spare cylinder, it should at least be a 13cf pony bottle. Don't waster your money on a "Can" of spare air.

ouchhhh.. well that told me didnt it.... lol...
!! live long and prosper !!

 

[msandler]

don't suppose anyone is up to summarizing what has said in the last 200 posts, I can't bring myself to reading it all :|

 

[jonnythan]

"What happens if you're OOA at 84 feet with no buddy?"

"Well how does that happen?"

"It doesn't matter."

"But you can prevent it with decent buddies and by being a decent buddy"

"I don't care. What do you do?"

"You're not listening."

"So what do you do?"

[some voice in the back of the room] "I'd swim for my buddy!"

"OK, thanks!"

 

[The Kraken]

Jolly good, Johnny !!! Jolly good, indeed !!!!!!

 

[simbrooks]

"What happens if you're OOA at 84 feet with no buddy?"

"Well how does that happen?"

"It doesn't matter."

"But you can prevent it with decent buddies and by being a decent buddy"

"I don't care. What do you do?"

"You're not listening."

"So what do you do?"

[some voice in the back of the room] "I'd swim for my buddy!"

"OK, thanks!"

You forgot the suggestion of tying a dog leash on your buddy, so when you want him to come back due to OOA at 84ft, you press the button and heh presto you have the buddy right there!

There are some take home lessons from this thread, it is not "what do i do when you i'm at 84ft and OOA?" (you wont remember this thread at that time), but it is, "what can i do to prevent this from happening at all?". That is the summary of 99% of the posts.

 

[pilot fish]

don't suppose anyone is up to summarizing what has said in the last 200 posts, I can't bring myself to reading it all :|

Some said go for the surface, some said over to your buddy, some asked more questions, some ignored the question, some didn't understand the question, some didn't like the question, some preached, some blamed poor training, some said poor skills and some said who gives a rat's.... All in all, if you care to find it, there wa some good info in the thread.Made me realize some things I was doing wrong and not doing.

 

[simbrooks]

Some said go for the surface, some said over to your buddy, some asked more questions, some ignored the question, some didn't understand the question, some didn't like the question, some preached, some blamed poor training, some said poor skills and some said who gives a rat's.... All in all, if you care to find it, there wa some good info in the thread.Made me realize some things I was doing wrong and not doing.

Ok, this is what i would like to hear about, what did you take home/realise from this debate PF? I would like to know from others too, obviously there are funnies in the thread, but its nice to know if/what signal got through some of the noise!!