Out of Air at 84 ft

[pilot fish]

Indeed one must use great care when inquiring about another persons dive history and skills. None of us likes to think that we are not good enough at something we have chosen to do. One example of that is all the threads here about which agency to train with. The key is to be conversational about it. Offer information about yourself first and make sure it doesn't sound like bragging or chest thumping. Be courteous and appropriate about the questions and the information.

If you recieve some bit of info that you feel is negative you need to decide if ist enough for you to ask for other arrangements or if you can deal with it.

For someone who hasn't been in the water for a few years, you need to guage their prior dive history and closely observe their behavior in handling and setting up their gear. If they had done a lot of diving then laid off for whatever reason then there might not be anything to be concerned about. Expect them to be a little rusty but there shouldn't be any big issues. I would dive with them.

Someone with 10 dives total and recent certified--you need to learn more about their training. Do they know how much weight they need? Does it seem like a reasonable amount? Do they make any comments about buoyancy control? Gear handling and setup are things to look for again. Do they seem relaxed and comfortable or scared to death. What is their response to a comment about mask clearing? If it was a terror producing event that they did not or will not practice then maybe other arrangements need to be made.

Keep in mind that a well trained recently certified diver can be pretty on top of their game and would benefit from diving with someone willing to provide some mentoring.

A lot depends also on how strong you are as a diver and what training you have. A good rescue diver course will help you see much of what we are talking about and will help you know what to do to prevent problems as well as deal with problems.

Be conversational about it. That sounds like the way to go. Good idea. Sometimes, this happens most of the time actually, the DM waits till splash to ask if everyone has a buddy. Wish that was covered way before so I would have an opportunity to find out who will be my buddy. All too often it it done just as we are putting on our gear, or after we are all geared up. Think I will ask that question as we leave the dock, not wait till the DM brings it up. These are the types of things a lone diver has to deal with.

Once I do the nitrox thing I will look into Rescue.

 

[pilot fish]

Pilot Fish,
I think some of those questions are pretty much standard questions all divers like to ask each other. Maybe not the one about "was your class a long one or a short one", but things like, how long have you been diving, where did you get certified, where do you normally dive. These seem like standard questions that could be asked on the boat ride out, without worry of offending. Another way to approach it is instead of coming up to a prospective buddy and start interviewing them, do the opposite....offer up the same info about yourself, then they would probably offer the same in return, just making conversation so to speak.
Something like...
"I've never did a dive on this wreck before, have you?", or "I was out here last week end and the vis was great, have you ever dived here before?" or "I've never done a dive with the charter outfit, I usually dive with (insert favorite dive operator here), have you ever been out with these guys before?".
I think any of those approaches would pretty much open up a conversation that would allow you to ask everything you want to know without them knowing you were even "interviewing" them.

Jason

Yes, I can see how that would open up a dialogue. Again, I will start looking to buddy up sooner and not wait till the DM brings it up at the last minute. Thanks, Jason

 

[wreckferret146]

It doesn't matter what the reason is, you are at 84 ft and you're out of air. In the real world of diving we all know that at times your dive Buddy and you will be more than a few kicks from each other. It happens. You are not that familiar with each other. It's not a designated Buddy you went diving with. It's one you teamed up with on the boat, or a Buddy that was designated for you by the situation on the boat. All the other divers are also, like your buddy, about 20 to 30 ft away, below you, above you, on either side. You are sucking an empty reg, nothing is coming out. No air! As might be expected, you start to panic, get real concerned. You have to think very fast. You don't have minutes, you have seconds. What do you do?

As Chatterton puts it, do you bolt for the sun and seagulls and go straight up vertically to the surface, or do you try to connect with one of the divers that are 20 to 30 ft away by swimming horizontally? You have to realize your actions are near panic level so the book is probably not foremost in your mind. You want air and you want it fast! [try holding your breath in a pool till you run almost out of air and then think about what you might do with your air cut off?]

I think my first instinct would be for the surface and not waste precious seconds going horizontally? It's one thing to speculate about what you would do while you are on the surface but all of the training MIGHT go out the window once you have no air at depth?

first, cant belive im seeing this
second,cant believe how many people still dive without an alternative air supply is your life really worth so little???
third , get a pony or twins save yourself !! dont count on others being there to help
!!! live long and prosper !!!

 

[navdivr]

you can do the blow and go at about 60ft. after that it is risky. you would ditch your weight belt. and tank if you can.you must blow air out as you are going up. it is proven that if you do this at 60ft. you will surive. I was tought this in Navy dive school, and we had to do this at 60ft. trust me this works. ask any Navy diver. I also dive with a spare air bottle when I go over 75 ft. it is a good investment.

 

[Sideband]

That would be interesting to hear. Can you give me a quick overview of what things to look for? You have to realize, in the real dive world when you go on a dive boat alone, which is what I do every time I dive, you never know who on that boat is going to be your buddy, or even if you'll have one. Most times that is not covered till you are about to spalsh. Difficult to ask questions after you are geared up ready to jump in. A lot of divers resent your intrusive questions about their abilty and experience and get defensive. I'm sure you have encountered this?

I will preface this with the fact that all of my experience (40+ dives) have been in quarries and most have been with divers either getting their OW cert or with fewer than 10 dives. If anyone I was about to dive with got defensive about my asking about their experience or didn't want to go through a pre-dive check then they would be diving with someone else. I am very comfortable in my 'local' quarry (Haigh) and will dive with almost anyone there. I don't care if it is their first dive after cert., I will gladly buddy up with them. Since I have only been diving a year I easily remember those that dove with me on my first dives and made them positive experiences. I kind of feel a responsibility to help others have that same positive experience that I had. A lack of experience or even confidence is not a problem with me there as I am willing to work with someone and will set up a dive with an instructor friend to helpout if needed to help them get that positive experience. Now, someone that is "too good" to do a pre-dive check or has "too much experience" to bother with it because of their past diving experience can find someone else to dive with.
An example. I had about 5 post cert dives under my belt and went out to the quarrry. I was hoping to meet up with someone else from the board there but was unable to find them due to the crowd. Luckily my LDS had a class going on so I set up where the class was and the instructor said he had 2 people coming out shortly, one to do a makeup AOW dive and another to do a dive with a new dry suit. He suggested I hook up with them. Since I had already paid to get in and had rented a tank (besides being very excited to get another dive in) I was willing to dive with almost anyone. The two guys showed up within about 20 minutes and seemed alright. As we geared up I explained my experience and asked about theirs. They were both very open about their experience, the makeup dive guy having much less than the other. The drysuit dude had a billion dives under his belt in every conceivable sitiation from the way he talked. We went over to the dock to do our entry since this was going to be a deeper dive (50') so the guy checking out his dry suit could get into some 'colder' water (50 deg). I initiated the buddy check and the guy making up a dive went through it with me with no problem. We both had very standard equipment and it went well. The other guy just wanted to get into the water. We let the dry suit guy get in first and I quickly told the other guy that "we were sticking together as buddies". The third guy was in our group as well but if he wanted to deviate from the plan we had that I was sticking to him. Sure enough, not 15 minutes into the dive we were headed off to a spot we hadn't planned. We completed the dive with no problems aside from that but I have yet to dive with that guy again. If it hadn't been for the guy doing his make-up dive I wouldn't have done that one at all.
I guess my point here is, I'll do a boring dive with someone with less experience anytime if the person I'm with is honest about his ability, but if you get defensive and are 'too good' to do the basic safety stuff then you are on your own on any dive. I've been to that freaking rock crusher (18') more times than I care to, but if someone comes up and wants to go there because that is at their comfort level then I'm there again. If that same person figured it was "just the rock crusher" and wouldn't go through the planning and pre-dive checks then I'm not going with them. Yes, it is only the crusher and only 18' but it is still a dive and I am going to treat it the same as I will next year when I dive the Willie in Lake Michigan at 90'. I dive because I do it safely and it is fun. If you remove any aspect of the safety then it is no longer a fun dive.
Another quick story. I was doing a dive with a girl that I had dove with on about half of my dives. She popped out to the quarry one day while I was there but she had given her SPG to her neice. She had much better air consumption than I had and we were always practically connected at the hip when we dove together so we decided it was not a problem. I had no fun at all on that dive as I was concentrating on my air pressure and was eternally ready to hand off my octo in case of trouble. After the dive we checked her air and she had about 900psi to my 450, but we decided that was enough of that. I wasn't having any fun because I was concentrating on everything but having fun. After about 15 minutes in the water I had one hand on my octo, ever ready to hand it off. Even though we were only in about 20 to 30 feet of water and could easily do a CESA if nothing else, it wasn't fun. I was sorry we did it and wouldn't do it again. This was someone whose abilities I was very confident in.
If I'm ever with someone that is too good for the basics then I'm not getting wet that day.

Joe

 

[pilot fish]

first, cant belive im seeing this
second,cant believe how many people still dive without an alternative air supply is your life really worth so little???
third , get a pony or twins save yourself !! dont count on others being there to help
!!! live long and prosper !!!

Are you talking about Spare Air? Just how good are those things? Will that get you to the surface from 84 ft with a safety stop?

 

[pilot fish]

you can do the blow and go at about 60ft. after that it is risky. you would ditch your weight belt. and tank if you can.you must blow air out as you are going up. it is proven that if you do this at 60ft. you will surive. I was tought this in Navy dive school, and we had to do this at 60ft. trust me this works. ask any Navy diver. I also dive with a spare air bottle when I go over 75 ft. it is a good investment.

You would get rid of your tank? Really? Won't that help you with a bit of byoyancy? Weights, yeah, dump em, but I never heard of getting rid of the tank too. :06:

 

[Charlie99]

Can you give me a quick overview of what things to look for? You have to realize, in the real dive world when you go on a dive boat alone, which is what I do every time I dive, you never know who on that boat is going to be your buddy, or even if you'll have one.

Here's my 2 cents on how to enjoy diving with random buddies.

Charlie

 

[jonnythan]

Are you talking about Spare Air? Just how good are those things? Will that get you to the surface from 84 ft with a safety stop?

You should be able to do this sort of calculation, especially if you're going to be at 84 feet.

However, the answer is quite simply "no." To do a 30fpm ascent from 84 feet with a safety stop will take, depending on your stressed SAC, between 7 and 10 cf of gas.

So what happens if you're with your buddy, you grab your spare air at 84 feet because you're [for some reason] OOA, and your Spare Air has emptied - unbeknownst to you? You go to your buddy, right?

Does your buddy have enough air to get both of you up from 84 feet? Do either of you have *any* idea how much air it will take? What do you do when you're at 25 feet and suddenly both OOA?

 

[Scubakevdm]

However, the answer is quite simply "no." To do a 30fpm ascent from 84 feet with a safety stop will take, depending on your stressed SAC, between 7 and 10 cf of gas.

Should a safety stop during an emergency swimming ascent really be called a safety stop? My calculations are a bit less conservative too. I'm not that great with hypothetical stuff though. I'm more of an actual guy.