OUPV Limitations

[ComputerJoe]

Here's another sticky wicket. >100ton and the one paying passenger would be...say the owner. The other 11 would be crew or owners friends? And <100ton the 6 passengers with one paying, would the other 5 be crew? This would mean that 6 is the limit of persons on board a 6 pak period...no 7th person (mate or instructor) as suggested elsewhere in this post.

 

[captndale]

Here's another sticky wicket. >100ton and the one paying passenger would be...say the owner. The other 11 would be crew or owners friends? And <100ton the 6 passengers with one paying, would the other 5 be crew? This would mean that 6 is the limit of persons on board a 6 pak period...no 7th person (mate or instructor) as suggested elsewhere in this post.

If at least one person on board has paid for passage then the trip is a charter.

Every person on board is classified as either master, passenger or a crew member.

Crew members are paid and if they have any responsibility for safety must be enrolled in the random drug testing program.

Everyone on board who is not either the captain or crew is a passenger. It does not matter whether or not each of them has paid for passage as long as at least one of them has done so. Uninspected vessels are limited to 6 or 12 passengers, depending on tonnage.

 

[SPEARIT]

I can give a firsthand experience concerning this;
Last year I was chartered for 2 days by a private survey company doing bottom surveys for the Corps of Engineers. They wanted to carry 8 pax, one of which was a COE safety observer, as required by regulations, I explained it could only be 6 total to meet the boat's restrictions(I personally have a 200T(domestic),500T(ITC) Masters license. They complied with that and the first day's trip was run. Upon returning to the dock, I was met by a USCG MSO and NC Marine Patrol who explained that they had received a report that I was carrying excess passengers(I later found out another charter company had called in the complaint as harassment). I had the 6 pax, myself and my mate onboard for a total of 8. My safety equipment was checked and the boat's drug program paperwork that is required to be kept onboard along with my license. I was in compliance with regulations so no citations were issued.
Based on my conversations with MSO's here in NC and research from this and a previous incident, this is how the CG here interpets the regs; onboard personnel are classified as either passengers(there is no distinction between paying and non-paying) and crew(proof that someone is a crewmember is enrollment in the boat's drug program). There is not a crewmember limitation on Uninspected vessels other than the vessels weight/balance restrictions.
When I asked about the divemaster/intructor situation, the CG does not allow any exceptions to exceeding 6 passengers.
I understand there is differing enforcement/interpretation of the regs between CG districts, but the maximum fine for exceeding passenger limits is around $25,000, so I'd be real clear as to how it's viewed in your district

 

[captndale]

the CG does not allow any exceptions to exceeding 6 passengers.

While it is true that the CG does not allow exceptions to the 6 passenger limit, there is no limit to the number of crew you may have. Crew members who do not have responsibility for the safety of the vessel are not required to participate in your random drug testing program.

From 46 CFR 24.10-1
Passenger means an individual carried on a vessel, except (1) The owner or an individual representative of the owner, or in the case of a vessel under charter, an individual charterer or individual representative of the charterer; (2) The master; or (3) A member of the crew engaged in the business of the vessel, who has not contributed consideration for carriage, and who is paid for onboard services.

And from 46 CFR 16.105 [This section defines who must participate in drug testing, not who is a crew member for other purposes.]
Crewmember means an individual who is: (a) On board a vessel acting under the authority of a license, certificate of registry, or merchant mariner's document issued under this subchapter, whether or not the individual is a member of the vessel's crew; or (b) Engaged or employed on board a vessel owned in the United States that is required by law or regulation to engage, employ, or be operated by an individual holding a license, certificate of registry, or merchant mariner's document issued under this subchapter, except the following: (1) Individuals on fish processing vessels who are primarily employed in the preparation of fish or fish products, or in a support position, and who have no duties that directly affect the safe operation of the vessel; (2) Scientific personnel on an oceanographic research vessel; (3) Individuals on industrial vessels who are industrial personnel, as defined in this chapter; and (4) Individuals not required under part 15 of this subchapter who have no duties that directly affect the safe operation of the vessel.

 

[ComputerJoe]

I have printed out the CFR's mentioned and will carry them in my license holder.

Would "safe operation of the vessel" include a DiveMaster taking a line ashore when docking? Deckhands on the Lakers are in their Companies random testing program and this is the ONLY thing a Deckhand might do that would affect the saftey of those vessels.

Thanks a lot Captn Dale

 

[captndale]

I have printed out the CFR's mentioned and will carry them in my license holder.

Would "safe operation of the vessel" include a DiveMaster taking a line ashore when docking? Deckhands on the Lakers are in their Companies random testing program and this is the ONLY thing a Deckhand might do that would affect the saftey of those vessels.

Thanks a lot Captn Dale

Yes, I think it could easily be argued that handling lines directly affects the safety of the vessel.

 

[ComputerJoe]

Therefore I will ask a willing "passenger" to hop ashore with the dock line so it can't be argued a DiveMaster is crew and subject to random drug tests.

 

[divezonescuba]

I had no idea that this thread would receive so many responses when I started it. It seems as though it has generated as many questions as answers. So here's another one.

If my unlicensed boat co-owner wife accompanies me, it sounds like I have to have her in the drug testing program, if I don't count her as a passenger? Just to complicate matters, I am too cheap to pay her anything.

 

[Tortuga James]

I understand there is differing enforcement/interpretation of the regs between CG districts, but the maximum fine for exceeding passenger limits is around $25,000, so I'd be real clear as to how it's viewed in your district

This has been a great thread, and one with much good information and yet some things seem unanswered. I think Tom hit it on the head with the above statement. I am going to get to know my local MSO and how the officer's at Ft. Macon interpret the rules, even though my vessel is a UPV.

 

[captndale]

If my unlicensed boat co-owner wife accompanies me, it sounds like I have to have her in the drug testing program, if I don't count her as a passenger? Just to complicate matters, I am too cheap to pay her anything.

According to 46 CFR 24.10-1 your wife would not be considered a passenger or crew member but an owner or owner's representative. So you don't need to either put her on your drug testing program or pay her.