Opinions on DSAT TecRec courses

[BarryNL]

I've taken the DSAT Tec Deep course and I can't say I'm a great fan of it. Firstly, I don't think there is nearly enough emphasis on the basic skills you need for this level of diving. I've seen a number of people pass this course (me included) while still having significant difficulties with basic buoyancy control - clearly a big problem when you are doing decompression on 100% O₂ at 6m.

The theoretical basis is OK and the course material is good quality, although sometimes a bit strange (e.g. recommending you get your buddy to hold you down while you shoot a bag ). It is also questionable whether 50m on air is a good idea.

Ultimately, good buoyancy and positional skills in the water are fundamental to tech diving and a course which tells you you are ready to tech dive without these skills is dangerous in my view.

 

[GrimSleeper]

I've taken the DSAT Tec Deep course and I can't say I'm a great fan of it. Firstly, I don't think there is nearly enough emphasis on the basic skills you need for this level of diving. I've seen a number of people pass this course (me included) while still having significant difficulties with basic buoyancy control - clearly a big problem when you are doing decompression on 100% O₂ at 6m.

The theoretical basis is OK and the course material is good quality, although sometimes a bit strange (e.g. recommending you get your buddy to hold you down while you shoot a bag ). It is also questionable whether 50m on air is a good idea.

Ultimately, good buoyancy and positional skills in the water are fundamental to tech diving and a course which tells you you are ready to tech dive without these skills is dangerous in my view.

But I did DSAT Tec Deep and was required to perform all skills - including shooting bags - without deviating from stop depth by more than 50cm (about 18 inches) (and while team-mates were briefed to monitor and warn each other about depth, nobody held anybody down!). Only afterwards did I discover that the requirement laid out by DSAT is a metre/3 feet... Be that as it may, the DSAT course DOES have specific requirements for buoyancy control and positional skills. As with all teaching requirements, it's up to the instructor to apply them - which brings us back to 'find an instructor you trust and see what agency they prefer to teach'. I went through DSAT because my instructor (rated with DSAT, IANTD and PSAI) recommended the course.

 

[AndyNZ]

GUE Fundies, Tech1, Tech2

I'd agree that Fundies is a really good starting point - the skills covered in Fundies are not always covered by other programmes, and having a good solid set of basic skills will make any tech course easier and more enjoyable.

Not so sure about a blanket recommendation of GUE Tech 1 and Tech 2, though!!

After Fundies, someone wouldn't necessarily know what course/agency/instructor to choose - but they would know what questions to ask.

 

[texdiveguy]

For you to make both the statements above and below certainly is confusing. Quality instruction can be received from a number of different places, including DSAT/PADI.

Randy... there is nothing confusing about my 2 statements.....it is your interpretation that is skewed. I have completed through PADI classes ranging from O/W to DM and plenty of specialties.....they were fine as I commented. I have also completed DSAT Trimix Blender which again was a good solid program. BUT-- all my technical level training is through TDI as a personal choice.....the courses and materials are superior to DSAT and they have a proven track record of technical training that DSAT has yet to achieve IMO......so nothing confusing about either of my statements.

 

[sweatfrog]

Randy... there is nothing confusing about my 2 statements.....it is your interpretation that is skewed. I have completed through PADI classes ranging from O/W to DM and plenty of specialties.....they were fine as I commented. I have also completed DSAT Trimix Blender which again was a good solid program. BUT-- all my technical level training is through TDI as a personal choice.....the courses and materials are superior to DSAT and they have a proven track record of technical training that DSAT has yet to achieve IMO......so nothing confusing about either of my statements.

So, you have not taken the Tec Deep course, but have accomplished the Extended Range course.

That's fine, I took the Extended Range course and felt it left a lot to be desired. I teach the Tec Deep course and know it works. So, I have experience with both. I take classes to learn and advance myself and the DSAT books are far superior to the TDI books.

When I teach this course, I don't just sign off on people. They work to get their skills down and the 12 dives DSAT requires gives them that chance. I don't like a course where you don't know when you will complete it and you have to keep coming back. Whether you have to pay more for it or not, you need to know where you stand at all times, when taking a course.

 

[texdiveguy]

So, you have not taken the Tec Deep course, but have accomplished the Extended Range course.

That's fine, I took the Extended Range course and felt it left a lot to be desired. I teach the Tec Deep course and know it works. So, I have experience with both. I take classes to learn and advance myself and the DSAT books are far superior to the TDI books.

When I teach this course, I don't just sign off on people. They work to get their skills down and the 12 dives DSAT requires gives them that chance. I don't like a course where you don't know when you will complete it and you have to keep coming back. Whether you have to pay more for it or not, you need to know where you stand at all times, when taking a course.

Randy.... I am glad to hear you go the extra step with your tec students, at that level of training there really is no other good way of instruction! Not sure were you are coming from regarding your time frame comment about knowing when you are going to complete a course....some students and schdl. require additional time.

I have both of the DSAT Tec books and have read them both in full .....I actually picked up some interesting info.,,,but found the TDI materials more direct and better....I even had to study the NAUI Ext. Range material as my instructor had found those materials good also and included it in his class work to an extent. So in short.... the more you self study the better off you will be. The short time in courses are just the building blocks be it DSAT or TDI....it's up to the diver to carry on his development.

For me TDI has a better deco/mixed gas technical diver program all the way from Advanced Nitrox through their quality Advanced Trimix course. Randy you feel the DSAT way is a better path, I don't.....the important thing is that the student diver needs to search out all materials whether they are from your selected training agency or another training agency to take the advantage of various spins on subjects.....nothing wrong with cross studying materials! Go with what you feel the most comfy with and will fufill your training needs best.....finding a good mentor type instructor you can work with is 'priceless' for the long haul.

 

[Rick Inman]

I am not too wild about the IANTD structure, but you have to play the hand that you are dealt.

My buddy and I teach IANTD Advanced Nitrox/Advanced Recreational Trimix together as a single class (he's the instructor, I'm the DM). Yup, the structure, slides and written materials are buffoonery. But the flexibility in the instruction allows us to tailor the class to our desires, so long as we fulfill minimum IANTD standards. And since both of us are Fundies alumni, the students get the full boat of GUE-level skills and protocols along with the IANTD standards. For example, we teach "best mix", but explain the benefits of using standard gases, what those gases are, and then we dive them exclusively.

In the current class we have a DSAT deep nitrox diver. Of course I cannot judge the entire course by one diver, but this is what I have observed from listening to him and observing his skills.

The DSAT class allows the diver much more flexibility in equipment. He has the infamous bungeed wings with enough lift for 3 sets of doubles, D rings all over the place, QR's everywhere, fancy gadgets hanging here and there, with zip ties holding it all together. He graduated with the DSAT cert without being able to do proper frog, helicopter and back kicks. He couldn't complete a proper valve drill. Holding trim while doing skills was something he had never attempted and was unable to do. He could not do a controlled ascent in blue water. And yet, he believed (and evidently his instructor believed) that he had the qualifications to do deep air dives to 160'.

But here's the thing. He is actually a great guy and very comfortable in the water. And he has a great attitude and wants to learn. He had just never been exposed to the kind of skills that we apply to our diving.

So, I'm with Perrone (BTW, IANTD now allows the o2 at 1.5ppo2, for what it's worth). Start with a GUE Fundies class. Even if you then go to another agency, you can carry the basic skills with you and apply them to whatever standards (of lack thereof) that the agency uses. However, once you've taken GUE classes (or some NAUI tech) and dived with unified team divers, the most difficult part of taking other classes may be keeping your mouth shut.

 

[scubanimal]

Haven taken the DSAT & TDI deep air courses, as well as the IANTD normixic & trimix courses; if I had to do it all over again I would still do the DSAT course. Like any course; the quality and performance requirements are highly dependant on the instructor. In the class I did no one was allowed to proceed to the next dive, we operated as a team and either succeeded or were held back as a team. The bouyancy requirements to move forward I think were a bit tighter than the manual, with the explanation being the required "mastery" of the skill, squeaking by did not count.

Also in retrospect taking a fundies class first would have made the DSAT course much easier. And while I use trimix now, having the experience of deep air was a nice set of lessons. I now can recognize very early signs of narcosis in myself that previously I ignored.

I was not that impressed with the SSI/TDI course, but that could easily have been the instructor.

 

[sweatfrog]

Not sure were you are coming from regarding your time frame comment about knowing when you are going to complete a course....some students and schdl. require additional time.

Some Instructors will price their class out according to what the market will bear and then add days and $'s to that if the student doesn't come up to their standards.

Other Instructors will keep adding to the class and you never know when it's going to finish. Just different stratagies.

I have both of the DSAT Tec books and have read them both in full .....I actually picked up some interesting info.,,,but found the TDI materials more direct and better....I even had to study the NAUI Ext. Range material as my instructor had found those materials good also and included it in his class work to an extent. So in short.... the more you self study the better off you will be. The short time in courses are just the building blocks be it DSAT or TDI....it's up to the diver to carry on his development.

That's what it takes to be a good diver. Time, effort and water skills. Good job guy!

the important thing is that the student diver needs to search out all materials whether they are from your selected training agency or another training agency to take the advantage of various spins on subjects.....nothing wrong with cross studying materials! Go with what you feel the most comfy with and will fufill your training needs best.....finding a good mentor type instructor you can work with is 'priceless' for the long haul.

The most useful prerequisite for this course is cave training. I was cave trained in 84' and boy has that sport evolved. If you are properly set up for cave diving, it makes a lot of this course a breeze.

 

[coldsmoke]

Hehe -

....buffoonery....

Hehe - Wonder where that word came from....hehe.... (I never saw nothin' )

Anyway, I am a recent graduate of the class Rick mentions. I will agree with Rick that the course materials, at least those supplied by IANTD, contain a large amount of buffoonery, but the instructor went to great lengths to make his own slides and material. He was able to teach many theories and gave you reasons why he makes the decisions he does. It was taught with a DIR/UTD point of view and I don't think that's generally synonymous with IANTD.

I kind of did the class solo because I was from out of town and couch surfed with my instructor. Since my classroom was in his living room after dinner, I guess the material I was exposed to might be different from what others were exposed to but I doubt it. All of the dives I was buddied with his other students and we always seemed to be on the same page.

In fact, my last class dive I was buddied with the person Rick mentions above. Our instructor signals me OOG at about 140 ffw and my buddy handles my situation perfectly. Pretty much text book air share to our gas switch. (That is after I realized the instructor was signaling me to "be out of air" as I am shoving my reg in his face ). Come to think of it that was the first time in hours of "buffoonery" where I was the OOG guy. I seemed to always be the donor.

And Rick's a great DM - I have never seen someone so old move, transport, and fill so many tanks.

Hunter

PS - I also vote for taking Fundies before anything else. You will then be better able to select quality future instruction - be it with GUE or another agency.

PPS - Just kidding Rick.