opinions on DIR diving

[nalfein]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


NO....Teaching a group of divers to dive differently and training them to handle emergencies differently from the majority of the recreation diving community does NOT benefit the diving community at all. It's going to catch up with them before long and someone will be hurt.


But don't many of the agencies deal differently with emergency situations? Who is right? If no one is exactly the same then how could we decide who is right, making everyone else wrong? Unless there were only one agency and standard, there couldn't be one way for all problems to be solved, and if there were one agency, people would splinter off anyway.
The only way to be sure is to pick your buddies with care, agree upon emergency actions, and dive within your plans and limits. I think DIR has tried to identify as many possible failure points as can be reasonably expected and removed as many causing/aggravating factors as they could. Then they have taught one standard to all of their people, a certain style of gear configuration, and tried to maintain a high level of diving proficiency. Maybe not so helpful to people who don't know the system ( me ) but it's looking out for themselves and their buddies, so it's somewhat safer.
Not everyone will be on the same page, ever, but the best you can do is try. I really can't see how training consciencious, skilled, and prepared divers doesn't help raise safety at least a little. I've seen lots of crappy divers from a few different training agencies who have no buoyancy control, poor situational awareness, and minimal concern for those around them. I've only been in the water with a few GUE divers, but they were highly skilled, I would have been surprised if they were unable to help each other or myself in an emergency. Their gear was streamlined and left no confusion or doubt as to function, I'm certain I could have worked with them with minimal learning curve.
I'm sure you're a very accomplished diver, I myself am still on the steep path up the slope. I respect your opinion even if I don't completely understand it, maybe I'll change my mind about the subject someday, but for now I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I'm not too sure about different agencies and how they handle emergencies, if their is in fact one standard except for GUE, then feel free to smack me down...
Dive safe all....

 

[MikeFerrara]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


NO....Teaching a group of divers to dive differently and training them to handle emergencies differently from the majority of the recreation diving community does NOT benefit the diving community at all. It's going to catch up with them before long and someone will be hurt.

They need to stick with the Tech community where it is most benefiticial.
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And how can anyone take DIR advice or Info. from a guy who claims that split fins are "snakepoison".

In what way are they teaching divers to handle emergencies different?

I have audited one DIRF class and part of another and dived with a bunch of GUE grads of classes ranging from DIRF to cave 2 and tech 2. The main benefit I see is the consistant quality. They're not teaching divers to dive on their knees.

People are already getting hurt. Just in the last year there was one dead and several other hauled out in ambulances just from Gilboa alone. At least one was an AOW student who freaked on the deep dive. I personally know of several other close calls that didn't result in injury but that was luck. We often see rapid ascents after a free flow or some such thing. As far as I can tell every single one of these incedents, without exception would have been avoided if the diver possesed even the most basic skills.

regardless of whether or not you agree with everything GUE is doing they are actively addressing this nonsense by providing their students with good solid skills.

To suggest that they're the ones who are going to get some one hurt has to be one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

MikeFerrara said...

They're not teaching divers to dive on their knees.

Who is teaching divers to dive on their knees?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Capt Jim Wyatt once bubbled...


Who is teaching divers to dive on their knees?

Some one must be because most of the divers we run into in the quaries are sitting, standing or kneeling on the bottom or otherwise molesting it. The classes I see have divers doing all their skills on their knees and they seem to continue the technique.

You've never seen this...

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

MikeFerrara asked...
You've never seen this...

O yea..I did not understand what you meant. When I have entry level divers demonstrate certain skills in open water that they learned in confined water I asked them to kneel on the bottom.

But, I don't construe that as teaching divers to dive on their knees.

:bonk:

 

[BigJetDriver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

"JJ's DIR", as you put it, is the only DIR that there is. JJ and GI coined the term and they define the system.

Actually, Mike, no offense meant, but it seems that, according to all report, JJ and GI did NOT coin the term DIR. (Reference earlier posts archived on this Board.)

BJD

 

[MikeFerrara]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


Actually, Mike, no offense meant, but it seems that, according to all report, JJ and GI did NOT coin the term DIR. (Reference earlier posts archived on this Board.)

BJD

I stand corrected. I've been told that the term was used earlier in a NAUI text, I think it was.

No offense taken. LOL

 

[cornfed]

IndigoBlue once bubbled...
I cannot believe this old dead thread got resurrected again.

I see you registered in November. Hang around for a few months and you'll get used to it.

 

[IndigoBlue]

MikeFerrara ...
You can be very DIR with a single tank and a single reg.

That is one of the modern myths of JJ's DIR. Originally, TWO OF EVERYTHING was the fundamental DIR philosophy. And this specifically meant 2 tanks, 2 regs, 2 etc. JJ has totally missed the boat on this issue. Had he instead said something to the effect that rather than wearing an 80 cu ft tank, divers should wear twin 40s, I would agree with him. But he did not.

MikeFerrara ...

As far as I know they don't teach to use redundant gauges. Your buddy has those. The team diving aspect and the insistance on good skills (at all levels of diving) is the part you've missed

This is another one of JJ's myths. Two watchs was the older standard. The idea is to be buddy independent in case you are in a cave or wreck, get separated from your buddy, AND have a failure. In modern terms, this would equate to two electronic depth/time gauges.

MikeFerrara ...

"JJ's DIR", as you put it, is the only DIR that there is. JJ and GI coined the term and they define the system.

I am glad BigJetDiver put that fallacy to rest as well. DIR has been around at least 30 years. A lot longer than JJ.

There are things I truly love about JJ's book. For example, I hope that donating the primary 2nd stage will become an industry-wide training standard. I also hope that jetfins or turtle fins will gain a resurgence, rather than the long freediving fins that are being pushed onto divers these days; in other words, shorter fins rather than longer ones. Above all else, he bravely states that not everyone is cut out to be certified as a scuba diver, and he is right. Current standards are dangerously low, all for the sake of revenue growth within the diving industry.

 

[JeffG]

IndigoBlue once bubbled...

modern DIR myths vs classic DIR

WTH?