opinions on DIR diving

[landlocked]

The oct goes on the hip or the right side of the BC. (Not in the pocket. Bad...) It's the yellow thing. Shouldn't be hard to find. And since you checked it before you got in the water, it should work?

Concensus: Air2, etc. is complicating an already bad situation.

So, if we agree that no matter which config, you donate from the mouth... then we have hose length giving you options vs. the oct giving options. (The standard config argument really seems moot.)

I suppose that whether a person is willing to go for the octo depends on how far they had to swim. If they are just behind or immediately to your right side, it's an option. Otherwise it is the same as with a DIR. hose setup. They get your attention and you donate the one that works. The standard octo is what... 3.5 maybe 4 feet? I suppose it gets close with the other hose; when you donate the one you were using. That of course goes along with locking arms; or SSI, taking hold of their shoulder strap; etc. Hmm.... If they are out of control and racing for the surface with you in tow, where do you want them?

A fun and worthwhile discussion. At least for me.

 

[landlocked]

Concensus: Air2, etc. is complicating an already bad situation.

The oct goes on the hip or the right side of the BC. (Not in the pocket. Bad...) It's the yellow thing. Shouldn't be hard to find. And if youu check it before you get in the water, it should work?

So, if we agree that no matter which config, you donate from the mouth... then we have hose length giving you options vs. the oct giving options. (The standard config argument really seems moot.)

I suppose that whether a person is willing to go for the octo depends on how far they had to swim. If they are just behind or immediately to your right side, it's an option. Otherwise it is the same as with a DIR. hose setup. They get your attention and you donate the one that works. The standard octo is what... 3.5 maybe 4 feet? I suppose it gets close with the other hose; when you donate the one you were using. That of course goes along with locking arms; or SSI, taking hold of their shoulder strap; etc. Hmm.... If they are out of control and racing for the surface with you in tow, where do you want them?

A fun and worthwhile discussion. At least for me.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

You can find the statistics by calling PADI, NAUI, SSI, SDI, etc., etc. I spread the word that ALL BC's are generally good. YOU DON'T NEED A BACK INFLATED BC WITH 65 LBS. OF LIFT TO DIVE IN THE WEST PACIFIC OR CARRIBEAN. For saying this to students and people my dive shop is bad? Guess what guys...YOUR IN THE MINORITY. And as long as PADI, NAUI, SSI exists you will always be in the minority with those few opinions. Did you not see that I agree with DIR and it's TECH & Cave Diving training. I just simply DO NOT agree with it for the average diver....AGAIN, AVERAGE DIVER that likes warm water diving where it's clear. And for that matter...I disagree with Cave Diving with the only exception of exploration for the ecology and other sciences. Cave diving is not safe...For that matter SCUBA is not safe. Definition of safe...Free from injury, damage and danger. For those that are fired up about this. We'll...Please try to keep an open mind to those of us who just want to have a peaceful and enjoyable dive without a bunch of extra gear and gases.

 

[Friggincold]

I think the problem with DIR is the messenger. People dislike the in your face approach to getting a point across. I think it is very funny the way people get their shorts in a wad over DIR. It is a good system. Most people get in a pi**ing contest over equipment. DIR is more than that, it is buddy awareness(no solo stuff), it is skills that most people will never committ the time or energy to perfect.It is dive planning, gas management, accident management,problem management. It is that and more. Case in point, a group of 10 tech divers from VA Beach took the DIR fundamentals class they had a 90% failure rate(although you don't fail it just shows you where you need to improve). Couldn't do basic skills like bouyancy control and valve shutdowns. Pretty sad skill level for tech certified people who do dives over 200 ft.
People want quick and easy and "you did Good Johnny" they don't want to commit to excellence and be highly skilled(do recreational divers really need to be?) . A large majority of divers, including DM, AI and Instructors, lack the basic skill of Bouyancy Control. I refer back to the VA Beach class they had instructor who needed to improve in that group. DIR or not to be a good diver requires hours of practice(open water in full gear actual diving conditions) which most people won't do. They need to see something every dive.They are not content to just spend hours practicing skills. They get no immediate satisfaction from improving so they skimp by with minimal skills. I think it's a hoot that we have uncertified divers on this board giving equipment and skill recomendations. They have no actual open water experience but they still put their two cents in. It's like nobody wants to listen to the people who have a vast amount of experience, they want to do it their way. They won't listen and use the experience from some one who has gone thru what they are going thru. To be an excellent diver you need to committ time and energy to reaching the highest knowledge and skill level. Most people won't do it. Diving is to be fun and if they can dive a few times a year safely and have fun with minimal skills thats what they will do, no debates will change them. They're happy and thats all they want to be. I think DIR shows how high the skill level can be, if you want to excell they give you a way(not the only way). If you want to go diving once or twice a year for fun DIR would work very well, but is it really needed?(IMO current training practices could be improved) SO I guess you pick where you want to be. Committ the time and energy to what ever level you want. Diving should be fun...
.(climbing down from the soap box...) Thanks for reading Friggincold

 

[ckharlan66]

Friggincold,

I think you summed it up well. If I read your post correctly.

DIR is a great system. I am working toward it now but with my limited experience it will be awhile before I get there. But I don't believe that the DIR gear configuration is the only safe one. However, the philosophy of safety and planning I believe anyone could benefit from.

Chad

 

[guerosd]

Here's a thought on why people dont dive DIR.... cause DIR people scare em off!!

Sheez... I've been diving fer 18 yrs, recently found out what DIR was and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. So what happens when I start asking the basic questions on various boards? I get flamed from so called DIR people for being an idiot (not in those direct words but I got the picture).

So I'm slowly makin the transition anyway (on my own mind you) to a DIR config because I believe the config works best for me. But if I was of lesser commitment to diving I'd have run FAST and FAR from anything to do with DIR 'people'.

Now before I get flamed for stereotyping DIR folks let me say that my local GUE-base org has been very helpful and supportive. So I realize that not all DIR folks are complete raving A**holes. But theres alot of you out there.

Get a clue... those guys are the reason more people get defensive and resistant when the DIR subject comes up. Let people have there own opinions, demonstrate why DIR works for YOU, and some will agree. That should be enough.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by Friggincold
If you want to go diving once or twice a year for fun DIR would work very well, but is it really needed?

Friggincold,
I almost hate to pick this nit from your superb post
But I must...
As you well know, I am no fan of the DIR bubbas and their "our way or the highway" mantra. However, if one chooses to dive strictly DIR (which is an excellent way for many diving scenarios), I would submit that you can't do it diving "once or twice a year." A commitment to DIR is a commitment to diving frequently, and to spending time "off-site" studying, practicing, refining technique.
This same commitment and dedication to excellence can be applied to lots of diving systems and scenarios outside DIR as well, and the DIR bubbas' denial of that is what is so irritating about them.
Bottom line, with routine equipment maintenance and a little preparation, one who dives once or twice a year can be a safe recreational diver doing dives within the limits of his/her training and experience - but they ain't DIR (or any other complete system) diving regardless of their equipment rig.
Rick

 

[pipedope]

Rick, excellent post.

I will give one example from the commercial world, while it doesn't relate exactly it does illustrate the devotion to the task that *may* be required in some areas.

Probably the most difficult underwater task (arguably) is welding wet. If you drop by any company that does wet welding most evenings and weekends you will find divers in the tank practicing welding and cutting.
Welding is a lot like riding a bicycle, you never forget but your skills do get less exact. The enormous costs of fixing a bad weld underwater magnifies the importance of doing it exactly right the first time.

Do divers need to dive everyday? No, it is probably not even desirable but diving weekly is and even better is if you can make a maximum of 3 or 4 days between dives, especially when learning or advancing skills.

Training teaches how to do things.
Practice develops the skills of actually doing them.

 

[maddiver]

I have one for you:

My GF wanted to get certified so I left her to her own devices to verify that it was something she really wanted to do. She did the research (intown albeit at every diveshop) and decided on an instructor that had a vast amount of expeience in teaching students and diving exotic locations. She put more effort into quizzing her instructor than most (note I was totally hands off at this point). She would ask me questions and I told her that once the class was over we could start the discussions. She took the class.

Her personal observations. That she was the only one to read the books and do the homework. Also that she was one of only two in the class of 10 that got the tables down. That they wouldn't let them use 'black' fins like I use. Nitrox is dangerous and explosive.

So I went to her final check out dives and when it was all over and the instructor had signed her temp card, class was in session. She got a 20 min intro to DIR and I had a bp, bat wing set up for her ready to go. Since the instructor encouraged each student to do another dive with someone right after class we did. She came out of the water and was mad at me. Yep mad that I didn't show her and let her use a BP/Harness and wing and have the back up bungieed arond her neck and the long hose (which to be fair came out of her belt loop once on our dive). She was more fluid in the water and the BC wasn't flopping around on her nor were there ay dangles etc. And the bat wing is 18 lbs of lift as she is a warm water diver.

The next trip was to Key Largo where after a stint of 4 a days she made some remark to the dm and captain about being so happy that her first dives after class were so good. They refused to believe it.

See I had let her try out each piece of gear in the pool and even rented a bc and reg setup from the shop she got certified from before the trip and let her compare a multitude of gear configs with her and let her make the choice before our trip. She tossed the colored sherwood fins for Scuba Pro jet fins and we went through taping of the straps (I took some fishing line and showed her how easy it was to get snagged and then how easy it was to solve the problem). She didn't like the look of the 'springy things' on my heels but straps are still DIR when its in the name of rule #6.

Some guy with an inspiration on a 30 ft reef dive called her GI Jane and she just looked at him and asked him what that thing was and why he needed it (it was so funny because it was such an innocent question and she has no idea about breathers, just in her developing DIR mindset she requires reasons for equipment use). Pretty funny when she beat him on bottom time and asked me if that's what old people had to dive when they still wanted to scuba dive.

I have no illusions when it comes to ow 'recreational' divers adopting and implementing DIR.

Originally posted by bengalsmgtsucks
Did you not see that I agree with DIR and it's TECH & Cave Diving training. I just simply DO NOT agree with it for the average diver....AGAIN, AVERAGE DIVER that likes warm water diving where it's clear. We'll...Please try to keep an open mind to those of us who just want to have a peaceful and enjoyable dive without a bunch of extra gear and gases.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by maddiver
I have one for you:

Great post and smart... very smart way to handle the GFs certification.