Open Water Instructor Control: Hand Swimming/Sculling

[tstormdiver]

There's sculling and there's sculling. An occasional sweep of the hand certainly shouldn't be grounds for failure but if they can't maintain trim or swim in a straight line without their hands then there is a problem because these are skills that they are supposed to be able to transfer to their students.

As for your poll, I didn't vote. I hate "failing" students. To me failing should only ever be an option if the student chooses to give up after remedial instruction.

The only person who "fails" when they fail a student is the instructor. It's a "failure" to teach.

If you want to complete the poll then you should add a fourth option: "Teach them."

R..

AMEN!:cool2:

 

[Diver0001]

There are students who refuse to learn too. Not all classes can have unlimited time to work with each student either. Not all failure is because of the instructor. A class should have a specific time frame. If you can't perform up to par by the test date, then you fail. You have the chance to re-enroll as many times as you want / need.

Scuba courses are performance based, not time based.

If the student can't do it *now* then send them away with some homework and pick it up at a later date.

You certainly don't need to hold their hand the whole time, expecially at the IDC level, but you shouldn't refuse to teach them either.

R..

 

[Trace Malinowski]

There's sculling and there's sculling. An occasional sweep of the hand certainly shouldn't be grounds for failure but if they can't maintain trim or swim in a straight line without their hands then there is a problem because these are skills that they are supposed to be able to transfer to their students.

As for your poll, I didn't vote. I hate "failing" students. To me failing should only ever be an option if the student chooses to give up after remedial instruction.

The only person who "fails" when they fail a student is the instructor. It's a "failure" to teach.

If you want to complete the poll then you should add a fourth option: "Teach them."

R..

I used the term "failure" to mean that the student failed to meet the requirements and standards for completing the course in the given time frame of an instructor class. For example, the PADI IE and the GUE ITC begin and end on certain dates. My curiosity is how many SB participants believe that an instructor candidate should not be awarded a "pass" and the instructor rating while displaying hand swimming and/or sculling.

 

[seaducer]

I don't know about this one. In the aquarium I volunteer at, I often use my hands for position changes and for locomotion. In that environment I may be very close to acryllic or fragile tank furniture that may be damaged by fins. From that perspective I do find using my hands beneficial.

In a group setting also I can see how using one's hands to make small corrections as opposed to kicking another person (such as in a crowded pool session) or making the viz even worse, like on checkouts, may be beneficial as well.

I think on the other hand, if you need to use your hands, because of a lack of skill or competency in the water, as an instructor you should fail. As an OW student I say let em be. Give them the tools they need to become good divers, but allow them the time they need to achieve that level. Some will get it straight away, others will take awhile. I wouldn't fail a student for using a tool that they have spent their whole water lives learning to use.

 

[Diver0001]

For example, the PADI IE and the GUE ITC begin and end on certain dates.

Getting to the IE requires a DM course, an AI course and and IDC course, which are all opportunities for instructors and course directors to dial in raw diving skills long before they get to the IE.

I really don't think that a CD should waste everyone's time by sending a weak diver to the IE. I know one person who insisted on taking the IE (against the CD's advice) who was a weak diver and they did, in fact, fail him.

R..

 

[fire_diver]

Scuba courses are performance based, not time based.

If the student can't do it *now* then send them away with some homework and pick it up at a later date.

You certainly don't need to hold their hand the whole time, expecially at the IDC level, but you shouldn't refuse to teach them either.

R..

Just want to clairify this. If I come take a course from you, and and can not demonstrate the skills properly, I can come back the next week for free? And the week after that, and after that. Suppose I keep coming back every week for months, are you still going to teach me for no additional cost?

 

[FireInMyBones]

Instructors need to be able to demonstrate the skills (s)he wishes students to learn. Flailing, no. A quick hand scull to readjust, perhaps so they do not kick someone... maybe not so much. Of your options listed above, I choose that that individual is not ready to become an instructor.

 

[*dave*]

To coincide with the poll and questions regarding hand swimming and open water divers, let me ask divers should agency standards require that hand swimming and sculling result in open water instructor course failure?

That would eliminate 80% of the instructors I've seen, but I believe they could learn to be still if it were expected of them. Students don't know any better, but it would be nice if instructors did.

Yes, I'd like to see a requirement forbidding hand sculling for candidates. As I recall, there wasn't much emphasis on actual diving during my IDC.

 

[Diver0001]

Just want to clairify this. If I come take a course from you, and and can not demonstrate the skills properly, I can come back the next week for free? And the week after that, and after that. Suppose I keep coming back every week for months, are you still going to teach me for no additional cost?

No, of course not. I didn't say it would be for free. If someone needs a lot of remedial time then they have to pay for it.

However, not all "homework" needs to be directly supervised by the instructor. If someone is having trouble performing to snuff in the OW course it does (or depending on the issue you can delegate it to some extent), but maybe in a wreck specialty, for example, if someone isn't showing good enough buoyancy control while laying out a guide line you can ask them to practice and come back a month later. (no, this was not the issue I mentioned on the other thread, just an example).

I'm just saying here that the decision to give up should not be the instructor's decision. It should be the student's decision.

R..

 

[elmer fudd]

I guess my question for all you advanced techie types out there is, "are hand movements less effective for maneuvering?"

I know that for myself, I can quickly get myself moving backward much more easily with my hands than I can with my attempts at a back kick, and while I can probably turn just as effectively using helicopter turns, I can do it quickly and easily with my hands as well.

As for swimming, I broke myself of that habit some time ago. I think it goes without saying that that is inefficient, but I'm a little skeptical that I'd actually see any difference in my sac rate or any significant improvement in maneuverability if I stopped using my hands entirely.