Open Water Certifications – Cold vs Warm

[elan]

Same here I dive 60f in dry suit with 400/200 g undies and dry gloves and with a hood. It is cold. It does help for dives 1.5-2hour long.
I dove 83F in 5/4/3 wet suit and a hood and it was in the comfort zone

 

[The Chairman]

Having read the entire thread, I found it kind of funny. A lot of instructors truly believe that their situations turn out better divers and that simply is not true. Superior instructors turn out superior divers and incompetent instructors turn out incompetent divers. That holds true in both cold water, warm water, good vis and not. Cold water divers who think that they have nothing to learn/change as they plunge into warm waters are probably going to get hurt just as warm water divers doing the same into cold water.

Yeah, yeah, we even had the requisite "My agency is better than your agency" tripe by some instructors who actually believe it. Most reasonable people, instructors included, all seem to agree that the instructor makes the biggest difference. That tops the agency, the type of diving, the temperature and all else when it comes to learning how to dive. A competent instructor will help you learn to dive in a manner that will keep you from harm in similar conditions. A good instructor will take it a bit further, giving you the ability to identify situations you need to avoid or learn more about. Great instructors will give you the tools to be able to adapt to a wide variety of conditions all the while maintaining trim, buoyancy and situational awareness. No, it's not hard to be an excellent instructor. In fact, I think it's easier in the long run. You just have to have a lot damns and be willing to give them out freely. Instructors who care are not bound by some erroneous ideas that their agency will not allow them to produce superior divers. Yeah, there are a few who want to force us into doing a crappy job, but we've already learned that they don't know what they are talking about. We'll keep teaching our students in the manner we think is appropriate.

 

[Storker]

Most reasonable people, instructors included, all seem to agree that the instructor makes the biggest difference.

Although that's bleedin' obvious, I wonder if there are regional differences WRT instructor standards. Note that I'm talking about the average of the bell curve, not that you can state with certainty that any instructor from region A is better or worse than any instructor from region B.

The reason I'm asking is my experience with North European vs. South European divers during my vacation. There was - on average - a noticeable difference between those two categories. I saw a lot more dangling hoses and poor buoyancy control among the South Europeans, and I wasn't particularly impressed by some of those "experienced" Southerners...

 

[boulderjohn]

Although that's bleedin' obvious, I wonder if there are regional differences WRT instructor standards. Note that I'm talking about the average of the bell curve, not that you can state with certainty that any instructor from region A is better or worse than any instructor from region B.

The reason I'm asking is my experience with North European vs. South European divers during my vacation. There was - on average - a noticeable difference between those two categories. I saw a lot more dangling hoses and poor buoyancy control among the South Europeans, and I wasn't particularly impressed by some of those "experienced" Southerners...

In time, something along these lines is almost guaranteed to happen.

In all performance assessments, the person doing the assessments has to make a judgment--people who think otherwise are deluding themselves. In all professional performance assessments, a training process is designed to "calibrate" assessors so that two different assessors looking at the same performance using their judgments will give it the same score. This is done by having trainees see a large number of performances at differing levels of quality, scoring them, and then being shown what the proper score should be. As assessors go out and do what they are trained to do, they will eventually start to stray from their training. They will stray based upon what they see from students on a regular basis and what other assessors around them are doing. Some will get tougher; some will get more lax in what they will accept. In professional settings, assessor performance is constantly monitored to identify when assessors need to be "recalibrated."

Scuba works the same way. Instructors should be calibrated through the training and certification process, but after that there is not much going on to monitor their assessments and recalibrate them. That is not surprising--such a process would be extremely expensive. It is also not surprising that regional differences will appear.

Note that I am not talking about your specific example--I have never dived in either area and have no basis for judgment.

 

[The Chairman]

Although that's bleedin' obvious, I wonder if there are regional differences WRT instructor standards.

With changers in latitude there are changes in platitudes. Nuthin' remains quite the same. One set of instructors sees the others as militant and anal while going the other direction they see them as lackadaisical and cavalier. Which is better? Why, the group you identify with! It's a part of that same tired mentality that states that if I don't teach it, sell it or dive it, then it must be crap. Too often personal preference is presented as much more than that. Me? I choose Key Largo, where the weather and seas suit my fancy. I'll guarantee you that if you take my class that you'll be able to adapt the same principles of trim and neutral buoyancy in a seven mil as you did in your swim suit. The physics stays the same, even if you add a few layers of neoprene.

 

[chrpai]

Sure, reading about wetsuit compression is the same as experiencing it.

I say just dive as much as possible everywhere possible. That'll give a more comprehensive experience base.

 

[Storker]

NetDoc: It may be a language thing, but frankly, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. Would you mind being a bit less subtle?

And just for the record: I've never worn a seven mil. In cold waters, I wear my DS.

 

[The Chairman]

NetDoc: It may be a language thing, but frankly, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me. Would you mind being a bit less subtle?

And just for the record: I've never worn a seven mil. In cold waters, I wear my DS.

Of course. There are a lot of regional differences in how classes are conducted. There are also a lot of differences based on philosophy and they are probably far more disparate. Just being different doesn't make one way better or worse. How you train is a personal choice. If you can find an instructor that teaches in a manner consistent with your goals, you'll have a lot more fun and the training will be far more relevant. I'm a life long Gator fan. Ask me which is the superior school between say UGa and UF and there's no question in my mind. A Georgia Fan would have the opposite opinion. In either case, personal preference is stated as an absolute due to our cliquish nature.

Here's a Scuba observation. You can tell a difference in the dive boats on the east coast of Florida. The further north you get, the more militarized the diving becomes and "Get off my boat!" is the way dives are started. The further south, the more relaxed it becomes to the point that in the Keys, you're more likely to hear "Pool's open" as the invitation to start diving. Sure, there are exceptions and all of them do role calls and worry about our safety. The differences reflect the diving environment for the most part. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[dbulmer]

Your first paragraph means little to non Americans (which means most of the world ) Yes I'm nit picking but heck why not

Your second paragraph makes sense but what Storker has experienced is more in line with differences in European culture specifically attitudes to risk. I wouldn't imagine cultural diiffrences would be as large within Florida.

I agree with your general point - it is the instructor which makes the difference - cold, warm - it's all diving at the end of the day which is good

 

[bluehole]

Meh, its's really much ado about so very little. I certified in a lake at altitude in early May during spring runoff and the thermocline hit at about 10 feet. I was so jazzed up about getting in the water I didn't notice the cold. I doubt that it makes any kind of difference where you trained be it cold water or the tropics. What makes a good diver is someone who takes the skill seriously and spends time practicing any time an opportunity arises.