Open Water Certifications – Cold vs Warm

[NW Dive Dawg]

Yeah, well it came off as insulting, largely because of that example. But apology accepted.

I didn't apologize. I gave up.

Doesn't it mean that you consider the diver trained in warm water to be inferior to the diver trained in cold water? Why else would you need separate certifications? Why else would a diver need a "cold water 'endorsement'"?

Are you still advocating this? ?

Here's what I said waaaaaay back in post 39....

My original post was intended to point out my personal opinion that it is both easier and safer to make the transition from cold to warm than the reverse. My comment suggesting separate certifications was probably a bit overboard.

Look... for all you folks that disagree with my personal opinion...that's completely cool. I think we are at the point where no one is going to change their mind. This forum would really suck if we all agreed all the time.

 

[BluewaterSail]

Especially after getting the reminder on the boat before rolling back. It cost them a bear all round.

I can see that is where the cold water divers are at a disadvantage. The going rate for one of those white polar bears must be more than the common black bears.

 

[CT-Rich]

I have to say, cutting cold vs warm water is a bit like standard vs automatic in driving... but we don't have different licenses for them. You learn to drive and you have a learning curve every time you get in a different car or cross a state line. The premise of a certification is that you are competent to make informed decisions about safe diving practices. that is one of the reasons I don't like all of these little BS certifications. I would rather have new divers come out schooled in diving to the point where they know there limitations, capable of sorting out minor differences in gear or dive planning so they can realize that they might want to do a shake down dive in a heavy exposure suit before trying a open ocean boat dive in a 7mm farmer john with hood and gloves in a 2 knot current. do they need special certifications to do all of that? No, but they better have enough experience to understand where they might have some difficulty. Training goes so far, practice goes farther and finally experience will fill in the rest of the blanks. But telling a poorly trained diver that he is cold water certified doesn't make much sense, unless you are collecting money to provide the instruction (this does not mean any disrespect to the instructors that are taking time to train skilled and knowledgeable dives). A well trained diver will realize that changes in gear and environment will add task loading and physical exertion. They will also understand the need for incremental progression. No C-card will replace that.

 

[windapp]

60°F is not cold water diving. You don't require gloves or anything thicker than a 5mm wetsuit. Some don't even wear a hood. The reason why I say that it is not cold water diving is because it doesn't have any of the characteristics of true cold water diving, the biggest of which is the large buoyancy swing at depth. A 5 mm wet suit simply does not have the same swing as a 7mm 2 piece. Add thick gloves, and you have a much more difficult diving experience in cold water.

I personally made the transition to cold water diving in a quarry that was no more than 45 feet deep where I was choosing to dive, after first practicing will all of my equipment in a swimming pool. I had a wall to grab on to when I had buoyancy issues, and there was zero current. I would have to say, that in less benign waters, I would probably have been in big trouble. This is especially true when I dumped the air in my BCD (like I always did in warm water), and, in spite of kicking, starting going down instead of up.

Rather than an additional certification being required, I think that it would probably be better to include a discussion of the steps required to transition into different types of diving in both the manual, and classes. There seems to be a push toward getting training for absolutely everything, and I think that this is a little dangerous. I am successfully self-taught cold water diver in spite of being told that additional training was required. Does that mean I could be a successfully self taught cave diver? If we don't make the distinction, then how is one to know?

---------- Post added June 16th, 2013 at 11:01 AM ----------

and in my own personal experience as a warm-water-trained diver, I made the cold water transition quite easily (again, in just one dive) on my first cold water experience in the Galapagos (the water was about 60°F/15°C for that dive, and it was the first time I had worn so much rubber or lead). I don't think I'm atypical of experienced warm-water-trained divers.

I think that you may be mistaken in your thought that diving in a 5 mm one piece in 15 degree C water is "Cold Water Diving". As I stated in my post, the exposure protection required for a true cold water dive in addition to the dark conditions generally makes for a bit of a rough transition. I have heard stories of experienced Instructors actually bolting to the surface because they were not prepared for the change. Try diving in a quarry some time using proper exposure protection for the 6-10 degree temperatures. You will not think the transition so easy.

I will give you that warm water divers tend to initially have better buoyancy control. This is because it is easier in warm water. Your body reacts instantly to every breath. In cold water with more weight, the reaction is much slower so somebody who dives in cold water before diving in warm water will take longer to for this to become instinctual.

I am writing this post from my hotel room in Salvador Brazil. "Eu quero mergulhar" but got blown out on my only day off .

 

[billt4sf]

I think that it would probably be better to include a discussion of the steps required to transition into different types of diving in both the manual, and classes.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I've read this thread with interest, and like some of the comments, but got bored with the agency bashing. I want to clear some myths about warm water diving (this is my experience in oman) in 23C water we are wearing 5/7mm suits hoods and gloves (some are wearing dry and semi dry). Surface temp in June is 32 and at depth 25 - no hood. In Aug we will have no suits but then even with Ali back plate (I dive a 15l steel) we're over weighted as we have no exposure suits to give us buoyancy.

We have heat and high humidity to contend with in the summer - where you can't get enough water in you. you learn to gear up and do buddy checks in a hurry before you over heat on the surface.

The boat issue has been covered, I'm a licensed boat handler and had to practice diver pick ups in a small boat in less than idea conditions.
We always use DSMB's - and we are expected to reach the BSAC gold or Black buoyancy standard - we get rubbish viz and the famous currents of the mussandam.

So that's a few myths cleared up about us warm water divers...

Learning to dive is like learning to drive, you pass your test (get your cert) and then learn to dive/dive gaining experience.

I tend to agree that if a warm water trained diver was bonkers enough to head for the cold, then we'd seek out further training, whereas a cold water diver would in all likely hood jump right into the warm water and not consider the differences...

At the day infrequent divers where ever they are trained will always flail about as they're out of practice or indeed have never diver frequently enough to master their skills. The fact of the matter is that there are more out of practice warm water divers than cold, as more people choose to learn to dive on holiday in the warm

 

[Quero]

60°F is not cold water diving. You don't require gloves or anything thicker than a 5mm wetsuit. Some don't even wear a hood. The reason why I say that it is not cold water diving is because it doesn't have any of the characteristics of true cold water diving, the biggest of which is the large buoyancy swing at depth. A 5 mm wet suit simply does not have the same swing as a 7mm 2 piece. Add thick gloves, and you have a much more difficult diving experience in cold water.

Maybe you don't need a hood, gloves or more than 5mm of rubber in 60°F water, but I do. For those dives I was wearing multiple hoods, gloves, and a 7mm 2-piece wetsuit with a 3mm core warmer under it all. Believe me, I had buoyancy swings! No disrespect intended, but it's not up to you to decide what is and isn't cold for any particular diver.

Try diving in a quarry some time using proper exposure protection for the 6-10 degree temperatures. You will not think the transition so easy.

I'm pretty sure I would, since I've actually done dives in 8°C water with no serious transition issues.

I am writing this post from my hotel room in Salvador Brazil. "Eu quero mergulhar" but got blown out on my only day off .

Ai, que chateação!

 

[eelnoraa]

60°F is not cold water diving. You don't require gloves or anything thicker than a 5mm wetsuit. Some don't even wear a hood. The reason why I say that it is not cold water diving is because it doesn't have any of the characteristics of true cold water diving, the biggest of which is the large buoyancy swing at depth. A 5 mm wet suit simply does not have the same swing as a 7mm 2 piece. Add thick gloves, and you have a much more difficult diving experience in cold water.

Then I am definitely not as cold tolorate as you by far. 60F I will be in drysuit for sure. Hack, I will in drysuit for 75F.

 

[Hawkwood]

Then I am definitely not as cold tolorate as you by far. 60F I will be in drysuit for sure. Hack, I will in drysuit for 75F.

Me as well, eelnoraa! The whole point is to be comfortable. It's not a contest as to who can stand the cold!

 

[Griffo]

60°F is not cold water diving. You don't require gloves or anything thicker than a 5mm wetsuit. Some don't even wear a hood. The reason why I say that it is not cold water diving is because it doesn't have any of the characteristics of true cold water diving, the biggest of which is the large buoyancy swing at depth. A 5 mm wet suit simply does not have the same swing as a 7mm 2 piece. Add thick gloves, and you have a much more difficult diving experience in cold water..

Echoing what Quero said, I dive in 60F and I certainly need more than a 5mm suit! I wear a 7mm, hood, 5mm gloves, 1.5mm hooded vest, and I still get cold. While it might not be as bad as a 7mm farmer john setup, there is still a significant buoyancy swing and a shed load more lead than in warm water. I now dive dry though for anything under 78 or so.

Diving in a 3mm shortie is a dream compared to that!