Open Water Certifications – Cold vs Warm

[MXGratefulDiver]

The 'list' of problems that the Puget Sound diver could encounter in Bonaire could go on for pages...

So let's start listing them ... sometimes it helps to give specific examples. I'll give a couple ... based on my first trip to Bonaire as a reasonably experienced Puget Sound diver ...

- buddy skills ... back in Puget Sound if you stray more than 10-15 feet from your buddy you'll lose each other. The lack of vis gives you visual feedback that actually makes it easier to maintain proper buddy spacing ... if you can see each other, you're close enough. My first trip to Bonaire I was taken by surprise a few times by how far from my buddy I managed to get ... mentally I was used to "if you can see her, you're close enough" ... when, in fact, I wasn't. If either of us had a problem, the other wasn't really close enough to be an effective back-up. Behavior modification was required ... and took a conscious effort until I got used to it.

- depth ... at home, the deeper you go the darker it gets. In Bonaire, I was taken by surprise once by how deep I managed to get, swimming to a little boat that was "just down there". It was as bright at 120 fsw as it was at 40 fsw. The lack of visual feedback actually made it more difficult for me to manage my depth, because I was used to using the planktonic light filters as a reference. Again, behavior modification required me to depend more on my gauge and less on the amount of ambient light in the water.

- fire coral ... we don't have that in Puget Sound. In fact, we don't have much of any critter that can hurt you unless you're moronic enough to molest them. You don't have to molest fire coral for it to hurt you ... you just have to brush up against it with some exposed skin. Same goes for those little fire worms they've got down there.

As a corollary ... when I went to Maui, as our plane approached the island you could see a brown ring around the island. Turns out three days of heavy rain had dumped a lot of mud in the water. The dive shop wouldn't even rent us tanks ... they said vis was too poor to dive. I said "how poor?" He said "ten foot vis". I said "we dive that at home all the time" ... he said "at home you don't have tiger sharks" ... :shocked2: ... good point ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Quero]

As odd as it might sound, I once had a diver abort a dive because the water was too clear and he could easily see all the way to the bottom of the mooring line, which was tied to a block at about 85 feet. I guess it just looked so far down and the realization that there would be just as much water above him when he reached the bottom freaked him out a bit. Maybe it's like standing with your toes over the edge of a curb waiting to cross a street is okay, but standing in exactly the same way on a curb at the edge of a cliff is scary. He calmed himself down and was able to do the second dive in the same conditions, though. I'm pretty sure this was an idiosyncratic reaction, though it just goes to show....

Blue water drifting ascents and safety stops, quite common here, also bother most people who have done all their diving from shore and were able to do their safety stops with a hard bottom under them for reference or who do their ascents on the anchor/mooring line of their boat. I've had a fair number of people become disoriented in these conditions and find it quite a challenge.

Slowing down when there's a current, riding it and steering with the fins is a huge issue. All the divers I've had from cold water just kick, kick, kick, kick without pause, and they don't know how to use fins as rudders instead of kicking to achieve directionality. To be fair, new warm-water divers also have to learn this, but at least they've got a notion of it by the time they're certified if they've learned to dive here. When I was on Bonaire, though, we didn't do drift dives, so maybe that example doesn't count.

Drops and pickups from unanchored boats are the norm here in this warm-water locale. Even though our boats usually cut their engines when doing drops and always do so when doing pickups, many shore divers get pretty stressed out the first time they have to do a giant stride off a boat that's still moving, and they have even worse stress when they see that boat bearing down on them for the pickup. I always gather my group and give them clear instructions just before the pickup about what to do, otherwise they find themselves pushed way back behind the boat and unable to swim to the ladder because of the backwash. Again, after doing it once, it's generally okay.

And taking off from Bob's Maui story, I've had cold water divers come here and confidently tell me they are fine diving in what we consider heavy seas, that they dive in much worse conditions where they come from. What they don't understand immediately is that our boats are not designed for heavy seas and they buck much worse than boats that are designed for those conditions. Boarding our round-bottomed boats in heavy seas is extremely challenging.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

As I said in my first reply to this thread, IMO this argument that cold-water training is inherently superior is a red-herring, but worse, it's a conceit. There's nothing about the water temperature that makes one diver more proficient than another. There are so many individual differences among new divers--even when they're trained in the same locale on the same days in the same conditions by the same instructor--that claiming water temperature as a contributing feature of expertise is simply nonsensical. Furthermore, a diver who is properly trained only needs a dive or two to get up to speed in new conditions, regardless of whether those new conditions involve surf entries, live-boat entries, currents, cold water, equipment changes, a new buddy, whatever.

I never said that cold water training was superior or that water temp was a contributing feature of expertise. What I said was that the transition from cold to warm is less likely to be problematic than the reverse. And yes....that may only hold true for a dive or two. But it still holds true.

 

[Quero]

I never said that cold water training was superior or that water temp was a contributing feature of expertise. What I said was that the transition from cold to warm is less likely to be problematic than the reverse. And yes....that may only hold true for a dive or two. But it still holds true.

ScubaDog, no disrespect intended, but I've just gone back to read your opening post again to make sure I didn't misunderstand it. In rereading, it certainly does appear that you're making the claims you now deny making. You clearly claim in that post that cold-water trained divers are more proficient, and you even compare cold and warm water training to teaching people to drive particular motor vehicles and suggest that certification documents should reflect this elevated proficiency derived from cold-water training. The explicit statement of teaching together with your statement that warm-water divers are likely to actually be dangerous (your word from the opening post) puts the lie to your most recent post. You did say it, even if indirectly.

I admit that the disdain that a number of dedicated cold-water divers like yourself have for warm-water divers like me irks me, and even though I realize it's a pointless exercise, I just can't help but defend myself and other warm-water divers against these baseless stereotypes.

 

[DevonDiver]

And taking off from Bob's Maui story, I've had cold water divers come here and confidently tell me they are fine diving in what we consider heavy seas, that they dive in much worse conditions where they come from. What they don't understand immediately is that our boats are not designed for heavy seas and they buck much worse than boats that are designed for those conditions. Boarding our round-bottomed boats in heavy seas is extremely challenging.

I think a lot of this attitude stems from cold-water divers travelling infrequently to the tropics and only gaining exposure to diving under optimal conditions - very sheltered diving arranged for the tourist industry and planned to keep them safe, comfortable and maximize enjoyment, without great demands.They leave from their short, sheltered tropical holiday in the assumption that all diving in the tropics is as benign and undemanding.

I've had far harder, more demanding dives in the tropics than I ever had in temperate waters - especially (as I mentioned before) in the monsoon/typhoon seasons, during which tourists rarely arrive... they were, of course, bath-water warm dives though...

I'm sure if I took a one-week vacation to Puget Sound during prime diving season... and enlisted the wisdom and support of an expert local diver to select the most benign and optimal sites on any given day and restricting diving only to calm, sheltered sites with optimal visibility... I would find that diving quite undemanding. Would I be correct to assume that this very limited experience was representative of the full scope, or even the norm, of diving in Puget Sound?

If not, why would divers assume the same of any other diving location that they had a very restricted (vacation-diving) understanding of?

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I admit that the disdain that a number of dedicated cold-water divers like yourself have for warm-water divers like me irks me, and even though I realize it's a pointless exercise, I just can't help but defend myself and other warm-water divers against these baseless stereotypes.

Holy Moly.... WHo said anyting about disdain? What I said was that a warm water diver may find the added equipment and typically harsher environmental conditions such as thermal considerations, general visibility, typically increased tidal and current activity, etc… to be overwhelming and possibly dangerous. I used the car thing as an example..

Anyway.... I give up. You win. Peace. Warm water divers rule and cold water divers drool.

By the way Quervo.... if you ever get a chance, do me favor and drop into the Rider Cafe on Yaowarad Rd 30.. The owner is a friend.. Name is Teddy....and goes by the handle "Doc". Tell him Clint from WA says hello..

Rider Cafe | Phuket Thailand

 

[Quero]

Holy Moly.... WHo said anyting about disdain? What I said was that a warm water diver may find the added equipment and typically harsher environmental conditions such as thermal considerations, general visibility, typically increased tidal and current activity, etc… to be overwhelming and possibly dangerous. I used the car thing as an example..

Yeah, well it came off as insulting, largely because of that example. But apology accepted.

Anyway.... I give up. You win. Peace. Warm water divers rule and cold water divers drool.

All divers rule, all hues and colors, all preferences and styles. eace:

By the way Quervo.... if you ever get a chance, do me favor and drop into the Rider Cafe on Yaowarad Rd 30.. The owner is a friend.. Name is Teddy....and goes by the handle "Doc". Tell him Clint from WA says hello..

Rider Cafe | Phuket Thailand

A biker bar? I'm strictly on four wheels in this crazy place, but if I happen to go past (it's in Phuket City and I rarely have reason to go there, but maybe on Monday morning since I've got an appointment over that way) and I see it open, sure, I'll go tell Doc that Clint says hi.

 

[DevonDiver]

Holy Moly.... WHo said anyting about disdain? What I said was that a warm water diver may find the added equipment and typically harsher environmental conditions such as....

....thermal considerations, Yes, it's colder in cold water. Divers use thicker exposure protection.

.....general visibility I dive regularly in 5ft viz. That's "norm" at some sites. Go figure. Did you ever see what a tropical monsoon, flowing through jungle rivers into the ocean, can do to viz? We (Philippines) get 12+ typhoons a year (real ones... not like you get in the US).. last year I missed 2 days of diving due to storms (I was waist deep in floods at my hotel). Dived the next day.. Aww... bless ur continental 'rainy days' and small storms

.....typically increased tidal and current activity, Because tides and currents are exclusive to 'cold' water? Get real....


I think you need a vacation where your diving isn't molly-coddled and protected. You're views of warm-water/tropical diving are a holiday-makers' fantasy..

 

[BluewaterSail]

I apologize for not reading the whole thread. Maybe this was said.

Overall, I don't agree with the premise. However in one aspect I think that more instruction is advisable, or at least mentoring. Going from a wet suit to a drysuit with a significant weight of undergarment does add bouyancy challenges that experienced instruction can help to more quickly overcome. Especially how to deal with the error of putting too much gas in (because its comfortable) and this great bubble of gas goes to the feet and you end up heading to the surface upside down. :shocked2: This could put the inexperienced drysuit diver into a hazardous situation.

However, I don't think that someone without a drysuit course should be prohibited from diving in one. Its just advisable in my opinion.

To me thats the biggest difference.

I've dove in the Med in water warm enough that no exposure protection was needed, but the vis was less than a meter, actually close to zero. I've also had high surf conditions under similar water temp conditions. Cold water doesn't have a monopoly on challenging conditions.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

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