Open Water Certifications – Cold vs Warm

[NW Dive Dawg]

Having taught all of my open water classes here in Puget Sound, I’ve always felt that there should be separate open water certs for cold water vs warm water diving. Either that or something like an Open Water Cert with a cold water “endorsement”.

In my opinion, a properly trained cold water diver will easily adapt to and handle warm water conditions. On the other hand, that same person as a properly trained warm water diver may find the added equipment and typically harsher environmental conditions such as thermal considerations, general visibility, typically increased tidal and current activity, etc… to be overwhelming and possibly dangerous.

Not saying that this is the case with every diver. Just in general.

I guess my point is that I personally don’t think it’s a great idea to train someone to drive a car using a little Hyundai with an automatic transmission, and then have them go out and drive a one ton crew cab with a 5 speed. However, the same person who learned to drive in the 5 speed truck will always be able to easily handle the little automatic Hyundai.

No real question here… just thought it might be worth discussing.

 

[spectrum]

It's a perenial topic. While there are a few new tricks in warm water I agree that the cold water diver's adaptation to warm is much easier than then opposite.

I think there are too many shades of gray to allow for a specific endorsement. That's where chatting, asking about experieince and observing come in I guess. The same could be said for quarry vs. ocean etc.

I do agree that a warm water trained diver should really get some sort of cold water orientation from a pro or mentor.

Pete

 

[lowviz]

Scubadog,

Have 'em do your course in cold water gloves, a shade 9 welding lens, and a hood...

 

[Quero]

In my opinion, a properly trained cold water diver will easily adapt to and handle warm water conditions.

Yes, it is a perennial topic, and there's much involved in the "properly trained" caveat to consider as well. I honestly think this warm/cold water thing is a red herring.

While I agree that cold water diving is initially more stressful physiologically and psychologically than warm water diving, the divers I've had show up here with brand-new cold-water training really have not been better divers than the warm-water trained divers with the same few dives. These brand-new cold-water-trained divers have typically spent so little time in the water that they never actually dived much. That is, they spent just enough time to get the skills done and swim around for a few minutes, and then the dive ended so that they could get out of the water and get warm. Our warm-water trained divers here have quite a long tour portion of the dive because the physical and psychological stressors are absent, so once their skills are done in a training dive, there's lots of time (at least half an hour or 45 minutes) just for the tour portion of the dive, and in this tour time they have greater opportunities to dial in their buoyancy, trim, and propulsion than divers who climb out of the water in a quarry or cold bay after a short training dive having mainly covered skills demonstrations. Brand new cold-water divers (ones who have just certified before coming on vacation to Thailand) tend to have a bit more trouble with buoyancy, trim and propulsion than their newly certified warm-water boatmates, and I think it's most likely simply a factor of time on task rather than anything intrinsic to cold/warm water training or the relative awesomeness of their instructors. When it comes to more experienced divers, I don't think those who have trained in warm water are at any disadvantage at all. It's easy enough to get past the shock of the cold water and the lack of more than an arm's length visibility when you've got some experience. It takes about the same amount of time for an experienced cold-water trained diver to adjust to drift dives in warm water as it does for an experienced warm water diver to adjust to cold water buoyancy and visibility issues. I've worked with a number of experienced cold-water divers in getting them used to drift diving (takes one dive to adjust), and in my own personal experience as a warm-water-trained diver, I made the cold water transition quite easily (again, in just one dive) on my first cold water experience in the Galapagos (the water was about 60°F/15°C for that dive, and it was the first time I had worn so much rubber or lead). I don't think I'm atypical of experienced warm-water-trained divers.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with spectrum on shades of grey and with Quero on a red herring. Scubadog, I don't know if in general warm water divers would be overwhelmed and in danger at first doing a cold dive. I know the differences having done quite a few of each. From a personal standpoint, I just don't think there's that much difference. You still have to control buoyancy either place (assume you're properly weighted for each place) and if 5 feet viz presents a problem it's best just to not dive that day. Well, there is one big difference-- getting those %^$@ wet farmer john wetsuit pants off when your done.

 

[lowviz]

...//... the divers I've had show up here with brand-new cold-water training really have not been better divers than the warm-water trained divers with the same few dives. These brand-new cold-water-trained divers have typically spent so little time in the water that they never actually dived much. That is, they spent just enough time to get the skills done and swim around for a few minutes, and then the dive ended so that they could get out of the water and get warm. ...//...

There is an element of truth in this.

...//... because the physical and psychological stressors are absent, so once their skills are done in a training dive, there's lots of time (at least half an hour or 45 minutes) just for the tour portion of the dive, and in this tour time they have greater opportunities to dial in their buoyancy, trim, and propulsion than divers who climb out of the water in a quarry or cold bay after a short training dive having mainly covered skills demonstrations. ...//...

OK.

...//... in my own personal experience as a warm-water-trained diver, I made the cold water transition quite easily (again, in just one dive) on my first cold water experience in the Galapagos (the water was about 60°F/15°C for that dive, and it was the first time I had worn so much rubber or lead). I don't think I'm atypical of experienced warm-water-trained divers.

60°F is heaven.

Cold starts in the upper 40's when you have to go to full thermal undergarments. The 30's just plain hurt.

I do agree with your premise, however. I am now coming around to addressing all of the trim and buoyancy issues that cold water divers commonly see as being "secondary" skills. Give us a bit more time...

 

[eelnoraa]

I kind of see where Scubadog come from. I certainly see more warm water divers get in trouble in Monterey than cold water divers having issue in Hawaii. And my own limited experience in warm water, only Hawaii and Thailand so far, the whole experiece was just easier. Drysuit + 400g undergarment to 3mm or t-shirt is a big improvement. I am a lot more mobile. Less weight, or overall less stuff on me also make things easier. Buoyancy is also easier. I am sure warm water has it challenge, but I still think cold water is harder to dive.

 

[TSandM]

On the other hand, Quero, our OW classes have far more time in the pool, spread over more days, than the average student doing a resort course gets. Yes, they struggle in the cold water, and yes, their dives are relatively short -- although we try to minimize the time spent in the water that ISN'T tour time, because we WANT our students to do as much real "diving" as possible. But the advantage of doing a class at home can outweigh the advantages of lower stress but faster classes done at warm water destinations.

The ocean is different everywhere you go, and diving procedures are different. Diving Puget Sound's cold but relatively quiet waters (at least, we don't put novices where it isn't quiet) did not prepare me for the currents and up and down flows in Indonesia, or the surf entries in Southern California. The currents in Cozumel challenged me to keep a team together, and several years later, I had to adapt to the "hot drops" off West Palm Beach.

Most of the folks I've met who have certified in warm water and come to Seattle, have had the good sense to make a very gradual entry in our waters, and have frequently sought professional help or experienced mentors. I don't think there is any need for certifications to be modified.

 

[spectrum]

Yes, it is a perennial topic, and there's much involved in the "properly trained" caveat to consider as well. I honestly think this warm/cold water thing is a red herring.

While I agree that cold water diving is initially more stressful physiologically and psychologically than warm water diving, the divers I've had show up here with brand-new cold-water training really have not been better divers than the warm-water trained divers with the same few dives. These brand-new cold-water-trained divers have typically spent so little time in the water that they never actually dived much. That is, they spent just enough time to get the skills done and swim around for a few minutes, and then the dive ended so that they could get out of the water and get warm.

I can see your point that a new cold water diver is nothing impressive in warm water. After all they are still new divers and most are not trained by the annointed few here on SB. They will dive like turds.Then again there are plenty of warm water junkie coral busters out there too.

However, let each group get a modest amount of experience them have them switch waters. The adaptations will not be equivalent for most. I get them up here in Maine and they leave with a whole new respect for this game.

 

[Quero]

Well, there is one big difference-- getting those %^$@ wet farmer john wetsuit pants off when your done.

There are other differences, too, in regard to exposure protection. I never wear gloves here in my tropical paradise, so when I have to wear gloves because of cold water, I find it hard to manipulate my camera buttons. On the other hand, I can't tell you how many cold-water divers show up here and insist on wearing a hood and gloves because they're worried about stingers in the water.

On the other hand, Quero, our OW classes have far more time in the pool, spread over more days, than the average student doing a resort course gets.

My understanding of "resort course" is a discover scuba or a try dive, so I think you must be wanting to compare a full open water course that you give and a full open water course at a dive destination, right? While I admit that my own OW courses are intensive and I don't have the luxury of spreading the pool sessions out over many days, my impression, if I recall correctly from the descriptions of your courses here on SB, is that I spend about the same amount of time in the pool that you do, but in a greater concentration. I agree completely that a lot of pool time makes for a quicker skills demo in open water and therefore provides more time for the tour, but if you've got a class of just four, for example, and each one takes five minutes to demo the various skills, that's already 20 minutes out of maybe a 30-35 minute total dive, leaving just 10-15 minutes for a tour, forty to sixty minutes touring for the entire course. My course would provide 120-160 minutes of tour time in open water. Pool work just cannot substitute for a lack of the tour portion of the dive in terms of diver development, unfortunately. Further, your courses and mine are probably not "average," so while we can compare yours and mine, we really can't compare yours to the "average" destination OW course.

I simply believe that there's nothing magical about cold water training that inherently makes for better trained divers. Yes, the challenges of training in cold water versus warm water are slightly different, and yes there are more of them when training in cold water, but overcoming those challenges does not necessarily mean that a diver is more proficient in the things that really matter--buoyancy, trim, propulsion--than a diver who has not had to struggle with a thick wetsuit or a ton of lead. Once the wetsuit is on and proper weighting is achieved, the actual dive skills are identical. I think the comparison between a cold water diver being like driving a one-ton crew cab with a five speed transmission whereas a being warm water diver is like driving a little automatic Hyundai is ridiculous beyond words.