OOG Brief in Mixed Teams?

[Sidemount_Stu]

I'm interested to know what or how you word your pre-dive brief for OOG drills when you're breathing from your short hose and your long hose is clipped off, to non-sidemount divers when you're diving in a mixed team?

I'm happy with the procedure itself, but i keep running into the same "arguments" from Back Mounted Twinset divers when i brief them for the differences, should there be an OOG incident whilst i'm breathing off my short hose. I'm therefore interested to hear how others brief it, to see if i can perhaps change my brief, or wording to help stop this annoying confrontation.

I always get the same response of.... "well if i'm OOG, i'm just gonna grab what's in your Mouth" even after i've explained the process.

Any help or ideas welcome.....

Thanks.

 

[kafkaland]

The few times I had to explain it to an instabuddy on a dive boat, I made sure to point out that the long hose is clipped off with a tear-away o-ring. I usually explain that I'm fast at deploying the long hose, but if for whatever reason I failed to pay attention, they can just grab it on their own. That gives them a sense of control over his to get to alternate air, and isn't too different from grabbing an octo, so they seem to be fine with it.

 

[Sidemount_Stu]

The few times I had to explain it to an instabuddy on a dive boat, I made sure to point out that the long hose is clipped off with a tear-away o-ring. I usually explain that I'm fast at deploying the long hose, but if for whatever reason I failed to pay attention, they can just grab it on their own. That gives them a sense of control over his to get to alternate air, and isn't too different from grabbing an octo, so they seem to be fine with it.

Yeah i tend not to have too many issues with single cylinder divers because exactly as you say, they're used to the "PADI style, Octopus Take" which is very similar. My issue seems to be specific to BM Manifolded Twinset users who are so used to Primary Donate, that they consider anything else "unsafe".

My brief sounds similar to yours with regard to the breakaway clip and a good yank will free it etc....

 

[kafkaland]

Yeah i tend not to have too many issues with single cylinder divers because exactly as you say, they're used to the "PADI style, Octopus Take" which is very similar. My issue seems to be specific to BM Manifolded Twinset users who are so used to Primary Donate, that they consider anything else "unsafe".

My brief sounds similar to yours with regard to the breakaway clip and a good yank will free it etc....

So far, the only BM Manifold Twinset users that I had this conversation with were two very experienced cave divers who had plenty of dives in mixed teams and know the drill probably even better than I do. And the recreational single-tank guys seem to be more incredulous about sharing the long hose when it's in my mouth than grabbing it when it's clipped off. As you said, it's closer to the octopus grab they were trained to do than the primary donate that they may never have seen or heard of before.

 

[SidemountPeter]

Coming from a GUE influenced environment and having been BM diver for many years most of my dive pals are discussing OOG situation frequently.
i do have to admit that things are much easier with BM using long hose and necklace. But it's also true that red divers usually are reluctant when it comes to the concept of grabbing the primary reg out of the diver's mouth. They usually feel more comfortable with grabbing the buddy's octopus.
At the end of the day I've decided to add some color to the long hose reg. I'an using a yellow octopus style front cover (Apeks reg). While I'm breathing from the short hose the yellow long hose reg is clipped w/ a break away connector from Go Sidemount.
Now I'm just brief the buddy "if you need gas grab that yellow thing, either from my mouth or from the clip". I haven't met anyone that doesn't understand that protocol. *lol

 

[Sidemount_Stu]

Now I'm just brief the buddy "if you need gas grab that yellow thing, either from my mouth or from the clip". I haven't met anyone that doesn't understand that protocol. *lol

Interestingly changing my long hose reg to a yellow cover is something I've been considering too, I see how that could work. Thanks

 

[Dhboner]

The bolt snap on my long hose is held on with an o-ring so if it is clipped off and I need to donate I just "tear" it off the d-ring and hand it to the diver...there is no hesitation. So in a mixed team scenario the OOA protocols are the same. If I am breathing off my long hose I switch to my necklaced reg and hand off the long hose...if I am breathing off my necklaced reg I "tear away" the clipped off long hose and donate it.

 

[Sidemount_Stu]

That's the same setup I use, as I said, the actual procedure isn't the question, it's how to make BM Twinset divers comfortable with that proves when ask they consider safe is Primary Donate.... It's the briefing I'm interested in. But thanks anyway.

 

[TSandM]

My guess is that your backmount friends either a) aren't sure they'll get your attention to donate; b) aren't sure that hose will come free when you pull on the breakaway, or c) are thinking of a zero viz situation where they aren't going to be able to FIND that clipped off regulator.

One of the disadvantages of most breakaway systems is that you can't demonstrate to somebody how easily it comes off, because it isn't quickly repairable. One of our friends made us some Delrin clips for the hose, which hold it securely but let go when yanked, and which have the advantage of being easily returned to the starting point. With that, it's easy to show somebody that yes, the regulator WILL come free if it's needed.

Not being able to get your attention to donate is a trust issue, and I think I'd just address that straight on. "Don't you think I will see your signal?"

The zero viz thing, I don't have an answer for. Honestly, I would not be at all happy, if I ran out of gas in a single-file zero viz situation and I had to grope for your clipped-off reg. Now, given that I am in double-tank backmount AND I'm a good diver who is conservative with gas planning, the likelihood of me being out of gas is pretty low. As my last several instructors have pointed out, out of gas situations in technical diving are usually temporary, the result of something like grabbing the wrong stage reg or shutting down the wrong valve. So they don't occur when you are simply swimming. Now, going through a very tight restriction and damaging something and developing a huge leak -- yeah, that could happen, but even a huge leak gives you a little time (and that's why we do endless valve drills, too).

And the last point is -- if somebody grabs the reg out of your mouth and can get it to theirs, more power to them. YOU know where your clipped-off reg is. Sort the issue out after the person has the gas they need.

 

[Dhboner]

It's pretty common for me to demonstrate the "breakaway" at the end of a dive. I do it as practice and to engender muscle memory.