I'm interested in hearing about some of the out-of-air experiences that have happened. In class we did the traditional slash-across-throat-grab-BCD-then-Octo but something tells me that the chances of an OOA experience actually following the script are slim to none. I've been reading on another thread about having your buddy grab the primary out of the donor's mouth and the donor switching to the octo. My instructor didn't go over any of this. Is this something I can practice? How? Other then the obvious, actually having my buddy rip my reg out of my mouth when I'm not looking (I'm sure my buddy would not appreciate it if I did it to her, buddy =girlfriend ) how would one train/practice?
OOA experiences/practice/question
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JessicaDodge
Contributor
My instructer said to try and pass the longest hose to the other person. Sometimes it's the regular one, sometimes it's the octo. I would think that as far as practicing you would want to practice it correctly... the more times you do it that way the more likely you would be to do it correctly in an emergency. I know that strange things happen in those situations but the more prepared the easier they would be to handle I would assume. Maybe someone with some first hand experience of OOA situations would be able to shed some more light on it, but I still think I would practice the right way and be prepared for the wrong way.
Jessica
Jessica
but you need to work out the details with your buddy before doing so. Practice in a staionary postion first. After you feel comfortable with that then practice while swimming. From this point you & your buddy should become comfortable with the procedure. Once that level is acheived, agree to try doing the skills without warning. In these practice sessions you should work on the preferred method which involves the proper signal followed by donating which ever regulator is the preferred one to be donated in your training first. Then practice the scenarios that involve no siganl and the OOA person just grabs a regulator form you regardless of which one it is.
The key with the non preferred situation is to realize that once the OOA diver has a source of air the emergency is over and you can then make whatever adjustments need to be made and then make your ascent to the surface.
IMHO this all works best if you and your buddy are comfortable having the regulator out of your mouth. Practice dropping your regulator while swimming and then recovering and replacing it without stopping swimming.
The key with the non preferred situation is to realize that once the OOA diver has a source of air the emergency is over and you can then make whatever adjustments need to be made and then make your ascent to the surface.
IMHO this all works best if you and your buddy are comfortable having the regulator out of your mouth. Practice dropping your regulator while swimming and then recovering and replacing it without stopping swimming.
The best way to experience an OOA situation is to practice them on your dives, as with all your other skills !!
They DO happen. I had my HP hose burst a 85ft the other day, felt like somone had dropped an anchor on my head. Got three breaths then all my air was gone.
It does happen
Cheers
Chris
PADI MSDT
http://homepage.mac.com/sydney_diver
They DO happen. I had my HP hose burst a 85ft the other day, felt like somone had dropped an anchor on my head. Got three breaths then all my air was gone.
It does happen
Cheers
Chris
PADI MSDT
http://homepage.mac.com/sydney_diver
art.chick
Contributor
hey, Mark,
This is a really important question, & most of us practice as if it was all just hypothetical. If you dive enough, you will see many things that "almost never happen." OOA divers are not necessarily composed & mindful of protocol. Neither are they the #$%holes that some posters have implied. My OOA buddy had his mouth at about my waist level when he realized his plight, so it was natural for him to reach for my Octo (on my "golden triangle.") Having been in this situation recently, I have a few thoughts:
1) Own a good Octo. Either you or your buddy will be using it, & if it is too hard to breathe on, panic will threaten both divers' safety.
2) Hold fast to the BC strap or the other person's arm during practice; current will pull 2 people in opposite directions & potentially rip off mouthpieces, hoses, etc.
3) Too bad if your buddy is not keen on practicing this; her life is as precious as anyone's & may depend upon this procedure becoming SECOND NATURE, not just a concept. Just explain ahead of time before each trial what will happen so she doesn't freak in the pool.
4) In any situation unfamiliar to you or your buddy (deep dive, low viz, heavier current,, etc) expect that breathing may be heavier due to nervousness, extra safety stops, whatever. Just insist on ascending with extra air (pretend to be a wimp yourself if that is what it takes to convince the other that this is needed.)
5) there is no need to "rip" regs out of anyone's mouth or shove them in. This can break teeth (had a buddy in my rescue class that got real crazy with force in urgent moments.) These times require a calm & deliberation that puts the other at ease. Gently remove & hand off mouthpices. The vistim will accept them gladly; the donor will give them gladly if the signals are clear. PRACTICE "CALM."
Hope this prepares you for many sessions of practice. Every pool session is an opportunity to refresh the many safety drills we learned in OW. If there is not a pool that allows scuba gear, shallow dives in familiar places can start with a drill. The day you need it, you will be glad you did your homework!
This is a really important question, & most of us practice as if it was all just hypothetical. If you dive enough, you will see many things that "almost never happen." OOA divers are not necessarily composed & mindful of protocol. Neither are they the #$%holes that some posters have implied. My OOA buddy had his mouth at about my waist level when he realized his plight, so it was natural for him to reach for my Octo (on my "golden triangle.") Having been in this situation recently, I have a few thoughts:
1) Own a good Octo. Either you or your buddy will be using it, & if it is too hard to breathe on, panic will threaten both divers' safety.
2) Hold fast to the BC strap or the other person's arm during practice; current will pull 2 people in opposite directions & potentially rip off mouthpieces, hoses, etc.
3) Too bad if your buddy is not keen on practicing this; her life is as precious as anyone's & may depend upon this procedure becoming SECOND NATURE, not just a concept. Just explain ahead of time before each trial what will happen so she doesn't freak in the pool.
4) In any situation unfamiliar to you or your buddy (deep dive, low viz, heavier current,, etc) expect that breathing may be heavier due to nervousness, extra safety stops, whatever. Just insist on ascending with extra air (pretend to be a wimp yourself if that is what it takes to convince the other that this is needed.)
5) there is no need to "rip" regs out of anyone's mouth or shove them in. This can break teeth (had a buddy in my rescue class that got real crazy with force in urgent moments.) These times require a calm & deliberation that puts the other at ease. Gently remove & hand off mouthpices. The vistim will accept them gladly; the donor will give them gladly if the signals are clear. PRACTICE "CALM."
Hope this prepares you for many sessions of practice. Every pool session is an opportunity to refresh the many safety drills we learned in OW. If there is not a pool that allows scuba gear, shallow dives in familiar places can start with a drill. The day you need it, you will be glad you did your homework!
A guy turned off his air in a valve drill and couldn't reach it to turn it back on. He made a throat slashing motion and had 5 regulators in his face to choose from.
Good buddy awareness, constant practice, and agreed upon protocol solve most of these issues. We do s-drills almost every time we dive..what else are you going to do at your stops?
Good buddy awareness, constant practice, and agreed upon protocol solve most of these issues. We do s-drills almost every time we dive..what else are you going to do at your stops?
Is the other thread you're reading being posted to by some of the tech divers on the board? When the DIR, cave, wreck and just some of the other divers who subscribe to these theories rig their gear their primary regulator is on a "long hose" and the octopus is on a short hose necklaced around their neck. This is designed so the primary regulator can be handed off to an OOA diver and the octopus simply picked up and placed in the donor's mouth. They don't "rip" the reg out, inexperienced panicked divers will rip your reg out of your mouth but an experienced diver who has practiced the skill regularly will politely ask for the regulator and behave once he/she has it. These divers also discourage holding onto the bc, I don't remember exactly why, it's been a long time since I read that post but the reason made sense. Of course if you're in a situation where one diver is likely to get ripped away from the other by all means hold on. We teach our students both ways of dealing with an OOA diver, handing the octopus and handing the primary. Most divers you will encounter will probably not be the well-behaved, well-trained ones. When they run out of air they will look at the first diver they see and know there is air in the regulator that is in that divers mouth, they probably won't even be thinking about the octopus, they know the one in your mouth WORKS and will probably grab it. That's why my instructor and I just hand that one off in training. It's better to offer it when you see a diver coming at you out of nowhere with his eyes wide and his "empty" regulator flung off to his side than to have him come up to you and rip what he wants out of your mouth.
The key to OOA situations as has been mentioned is to practice on the surface and in the water. This should be part of every pre-dive procedure, you should go through the motions, giving the signals and exchanging regulators--rehearse the whole thing because if an OOA situation happens you will do exactly what you have practiced.
Ber
The key to OOA situations as has been mentioned is to practice on the surface and in the water. This should be part of every pre-dive procedure, you should go through the motions, giving the signals and exchanging regulators--rehearse the whole thing because if an OOA situation happens you will do exactly what you have practiced.
Ber
Each person is in charge of maintaining his/her own buoyancy. Look at the accident reports... Fatalities happen all the time because someone did it the wrong way and hugged each other all the way up. Let's break it down:
You are OOA. You hug me. I try to get us to the surface and overinflate my BC because I have to drag you up. At some point on the way up (ripping current, panic, etc.), we get separated. You sink like a stone, losing the reg from your mouth, and drown. I shoot to the surface like a Polaris missile because I was way too positive from holding you up and maintaining both our buoyancy and end up bent. Now we have a dead diver and a bent diver.
sdexcalibur
Guest
during our last pool I didn't really want play time because I was afraid of running out of air before the class was over. Finally at the end of the night everyone was just swimming aroung. I saw one person to go up. Then the instructor signaled everyone to go up
We we reached the surface I asked if we were getting out. One person said ya I only have 500psi. I looked down I had NONE. If I was a car I'ld be calling AAA about now. I can't belive I was all out. I was watching that thing like a hawk the whole class. See what happens when you get preoccupied .
We we reached the surface I asked if we were getting out. One person said ya I only have 500psi. I looked down I had NONE. If I was a car I'ld be calling AAA about now. I can't belive I was all out. I was watching that thing like a hawk the whole class. See what happens when you get preoccupied .
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