Question Full Face Mask

[DrizztDive]

I am looking into purchasing a ffm, I see a lot of people seem to have something against them, but I understand both sides of the argument. With little experience and little training they can be dangerous... with training and experience they can be safer.

A few years ago I was in an accident and jaw fatigue is more like jaw pain when using a standard regulator for more than 45 minutes or so. I have tried many mouth pieces and the pain always shows up around the 45 minute mark.

My question is out of all the ffms, which one is the best? I am currently looking at the OTS Spectrum, OTS Guardian, and the one I am leaning towards... the Kirby Morgan Mod 1.

Which one do you recommend and why? If I run the Mod1 is it feasible to run two pods and an octo? Does anyone have any experience with the Mod 1?

Edit: I like the idea of being able to continue using my Aqualung Legend 1st, 2nd, and octo... which is why I'd prefer the spectrum or Mod 1. I have spoken with kirby morgan and the mouth piece is not needed, many people actually trim it off and only need it to attach the reg. You also can leave it in there and use the mask without putting the mouth piece in your mouth... but if you are worried about co2 buildup you can use it. It is "retractable ".

 

[Bigbella]

I am looking into purchasing a ffm, I see a lot of people seem to have something against them, but I understand both sides of the argument. With little experience and little training they can be dangerous... with training and experience they can be safer.

The weakest link of most FFMs, in my opinion, are their standard regulators.

Of those that you mentioned, I had frequently used the OTS Guardian and thought that the breathing absolutely sucked -- both figuratively and literally -- especially when dealing with any current. Regardless of what we did (and I am no stranger to working on regulators), we couldn't really improve its function.

The Spectrum is a slight improvement, in that one can use their favorite regulator -- and at about half of the price-point of the similarly designed Scubapro FFM.

The drawback, from someone who has been using them for decades, is the frequent lack of "over-pressure" mask options that serve to make them both safer, in terms of further venting CO2; which also serves to make flooding all-but impossible; and provides an improved, far more natural experience of breathing. Basically, the regulator involved is allowed to slightly free-flow and that extra air use, provided that it is properly tuned, is really negligible.

Regardless of what I did with OTS models, I'd experience a pounding headache within an hour of heavy use; though, in full disclosure, I only had access to their "on-demand" breathing models -- far too- "demanding" in my book.

Other unusual issues include the buoyancy of FFMs in the shallows (due to their increased volume) and the necessity, at times, of adding ballasts, which are ridiculously expensive, across brands, for what they actually are; so too, there is the all-too common tunnel vision of most models, that few ever realize or take into consideration. Add ballasts, usually mounted somewhere near the temples, and it becomes even worse and darker -- much like diving while sporting blinders.

Adding ambient valves for breathing on the surface, without the use of the tank; optional rail systems, for lights, cameras, etc, can make things even more costly, complex, and heavier. Gas switch blocks are also commonly used and add yet a further level of complexity, for FFM use.

Getting accustomed to using a Valsalva nose block, on the FFM interior, for equalization, may take some practice, for those FFM models which don't allow for any nose access. Stories of vastly increased air use are largely overblown, once the diver becomes accustomed to the masks and that novel capacity for breathing through both the nose and mouth.

The issues with FFM safety are also a bit overplayed, and I began their use well before there were any specialty classes. We just practiced donning and doffing them in a pool until it became almost automatic. Admittedly, there are some potential safety issues with the removal of FFMs in colder water (the prospect of sudden bradycardia) have been covered on SB, and does deserve some consideration.

We've used the Poseidon Atmosphere for years, which feature the Jetstream PP second stages and an Xstream first, so the regulator was never added by the manufacturer as something of an afterthought; but, it also cannot be replaced by another model of regulator.

Truly, it is the best FFM that I have ever used. Well-tuned, they breathe beautifully, though they've become ridiculously expensive in recent years; but that price can be more than halved, if purchased overseas (of which there are a few SB threads on that topic), which we have done on a frequent basis.

Try to find a dealer who will allow some testing in a pool, since the field of vision and use of FFMs, across brands, can vary quite a bit . . .

 

[DrizztDive]

The weakest link of most FFMs are their standard regulators.

Of those that you mentioned, I had frequently used the OTS Guardian in the past and thought that the breathing absolutely sucked -- both figuratively and literally -- especially when dealing with any currents.

The Spectrum is a slight improvement, in that one can use their own regulator -- and, also at about half of the price of the similar Scubapro FFM.

The drawback, from someone who has been using them for decades, is the frequent lack of "over-pressure" mask options that serve to make them both safer, in terms of the further venting of CO2; which also makes flooding all-but impossible, and provides an improved, far more natural experience of breathing.

Regardless of what I did with OTS models, I'd experience a pounding headache within an hour of heavy use; though, in full disclosure, I had only had access to their "on-demand" breathing models -- too- "demanding" in my book.

Other unusual issues include the buoyancy of FFMs in the shallows and the necessity, at times, of adding ballasts, which are ridiculously expensive, across brands, for what they actually are; so too, the all-too common tunnel vision of most masks, that few ever realize or take into consideration. Add ballasts, usually mounted somewhere near the temples, and that becomes even worse; often, like diving while sporting blinders.

Adding optional rail systems, for lights, cameras, etc, make things even more costly, complex, and heavier.

Getting accustomed to using a Valsalva nose block, on the FFM interior, for equalization, may take some practice, for those FFM models which don't allow for any nose access. Stories of vastly increased air use are largely overblown, once you become accustomed to the masks and that new capability of breathing through both nose and mouth.

The issues with FFM safety are also a bit overplayed, and I began their use well before there were any specialty sport classes. We just practiced donning and doffing them in a pool until it became almost reflexive. There are some potential safety issues with removing FFMs in cold water -- possible brachycardia, etc -- that have been exhaustively covered on SB, by myself and others -- and do bear some consideration.

We've used Poseidon Atmospheres for years, which feature the Jetstream PP second stages, so the regulator was never added by the manufacturer as something of an afterthought; but it also cannot be replaced by another model of regulator.

Truly, it is the best FFM that I have ever used. Well-tuned, they breathe beautifully, though they've become ridiculously expensive in recent years; but that price can be more than halved, if purchased overseas (of which there are a few SB threads), which we have done on a frequent basis.

Try to find a dealer who will allow some testing in a pool, since the field of vision and use of FFMs, across brands, vary quite a bit . . .

Thank you for your detailed insight and unbiased opinion! I will look into the Atmosphere model as another potential possibility. I plan on testing the Spectrum and Guardian in the next few weeks via my local dive shop as they are a dealer. They themselves recommend the Guardian but in the same sentence said the breathing sucked lol

 

[garywong007]

I am looking into purchasing a ffm, I see a lot of people seem to have something against them, but I understand both sides of the argument. With little experience and little training they can be dangerous... with training and experience they can be safer.

A few years ago I was in an accident and jaw fatigue is more like jaw pain when using a standard regulator for more than 45 minutes or so. I have tried many mouth pieces and the pain always shows up around the 45 minute mark.

My question is out of all the ffms, which one is the best? I am currently looking at the OTS Spectrum, OTS Guardian, and the one I am leaning towards... the Kirby Morgan Mod 1.

Which one do you recommend and why? If I run the Mod1 is it feasible to run two pods and an octo? Does anyone have any experience with the Mod 1?

Edit: I like the idea of being able to continue using my Aqualung Legend 1st, 2nd, and octo... which is why I'd prefer the spectrum or Mod 1. I have spoken with kirby morgan and the mouth piece is not needed, many people actually trim it off and only need it to attach the reg. You also can leave it in there and use the mask without putting the mouth piece in your mouth... but if you are worried about co2 buildup you can use it. It is "retractable ".

I recently tried the OceanReef Neptune III for a week and I think you should really try it too before you make a purchase. It is the latest model from OceanReef and this is the most comfortable FFM I have ever used. Most of the issues from the older models (OceanReef as well as other brands) have been taken care of. The internal volume of the mask is so small that you could almost not feel it. Because of the reduced internal volume, the visor is so much closer to the eyes and this gives unbelievable wide vision - objects that you think is next to you is actually from behind you !! The integrated 2nd-stage has a coaxial design (i.e. the exhaust valve and demand diaphragm are on the same axis - pretty much like the TFX) with central balancing valve (again, like the Atomic TFX) and the breathing is light and easy and the nice thing about this coaxial/ front exhaust design is that it solves all the issues associated with the CGF - whether you look upward (looking for your boat), inverted (looking for lobsters hiding under rocks..etc.)... breathing resistance does not increase and it doesn't freeflow neither. I think this is a real breakthrough in FFM.

 

[Searcaigh]

Does anyone have any experience with the Mod 1?

I assume you are referring to the M48 MOD1

I own one and have used it for In Water Recompression Training.

It's an excellent mask, and in fact you can use the "pod" and install your choice of regulator in it, although I purchased mine with the original KM regulator.

In an emergency you can easily remove the pod and just stick another second stage in, and while this is not as good as having one installed in a pod, you'd be heading to the surface anyway.

I've not used mine for regular diving and therefore can't comment on CO2 levels if used over an extended period, but haven't had any issues whilst wearing it for periods up to 45 mins.