Online Sales - The importance of buying from local businesses

[tridacna]

I made one purchase from LP and lo and behold, yep it was clearly used gear which was sold as new. After a couple of phone calls to fix this, I threw it away rather than hassle with them.
Additionally, it has been reported and corroborated, that LP had a company manufacture BCDs and sew ScubaPro labels on them. .

1. I think that LP should present their side too. I will forward this to them for their response.

2. "Sewing in labels"? LMAO. This is incredible. A criminal defense lawyer making an unsubstatiated claim? No way. :mooner: I hear (from good sources, Vince) that criminal defense lawyers are a bunch of unscrupulous, egregious people. Unfortunately, just like you, I cannot reveal my sources. Now where was this reported counselor? Please provide a source.

3. You and Craig deserve each other. :10:

 

[PhilEllis]

I have heard of several instances where LP sold used equipment and tried to pass it off as new. Hearsay, I know,, I know,,, but as a fact and personal experience, I made one purchase from LP and lo and behold, yep it was clearly used gear which was sold as new. After a couple of phone calls to fix this, I threw it away rather than hassle with them.
Additionally, it has been reported and corroborated, that LP had a company manufacture BCDs and sew ScubaPro labels on them. Yes, I know, I know, hearsay again. Believe what you will but the source seemed very reliable to me.
They sell several product lines that do not allow online sales. Now, how is it they can not only sell these product lines via online sales, but they openly advertise them in their online catalog? Either manufacturers grant them special privileges or they sell products obtained through sources other than the manufacturer.
My personal experience aside, there are too many reports, allegations and instances to ignore. I could be wrong but I am using the where there is smoke there is fire theory...............

In all honesty, I think it is unfair to repeat what YOU EVEN ADMIT is heresay. Trust me, had there ACTUALLY been a case where LeisurePro (or any other seller) counteriftted a ScubaPro jacket, you would have heard about it on many official sources. Hell, these scuba companies sue one another over nothing.....a counterfeiting suit would have been BIG news.

I have great respect for your posts and the posts of others, but this "where there is smoke there is fire" rule is bad business. I am not here to defend LeisurePro (heck, they are as much a pain in the business neck for me as any other local dive store), but this discussion is unfair to them.

Phil Ellis

 

[ReefHound]

I have heard of several instances where LP sold used equipment and tried to pass it off as new. Hearsay, I know,, I know,,, but as a fact and personal experience, I made one purchase from LP and lo and behold, yep it was clearly used gear which was sold as new. After a couple of phone calls to fix this, I threw it away rather than hassle with them.

Let's just suppose for a moment that this is all true, which I'm not inclined to believe although it's possible LP made some bad decisions and mistakes along the way.

How does this even remotely translate into claiming that "most online retailers" do these things? LP is rather unique in what they do and how they operate. While they may have spawned the online retail market they really are not representative of it anymore.

 

[Coalcracker]

I have great respect for your posts and the posts of others, but this "where there is smoke there is fire" rule is bad business. I am not here to defend LeisurePro (heck, they are as much a pain in the business neck for me as any other local dive store), but this discussion is unfair to them. Phil Ellis

I've shopped at LP for several years. They have always had new product in the original boxes. I've been in the store in Manhattan when the new equipment was being delivered direct from the big names in scuba.

They now have a new and bigger warehouse in NJ just across the Hudson river. The post by CD has no real merit.

 

[PhilEllis]

Let's just suppose for a moment that this is all true, which I'm not inclined to believe although it's possible LP made some bad decisions and mistakes along the way.

How does this even remotely translate into claiming that "most online retailers" do these things? LP is rather unique in what they do and how they operate. While they may have spawned the online retail market they really are not representative of it anymore.

You know, it is strange how people (especially local dive stores using the trip-and-fall business plan) will hear a RUMOR about something somebody CLAIMED was done at LeisurePro and then will ascribe those same activities to all scuba online stores. This is unfair to LeisurePro and is certainly unfair to those of us that work hard to do the right thing. The discussion is silly and non-productive; and certainly is not a good strategy for a local scuba store to employ to gain friends and influence enemies.

You are correct that LeisurePro no longer represents "scuba retail" in this country. They may still be the ADVERTISED low price leader, but they are not the low price leader. They are feeling pressure from online authorized dealers all over the country. I think you will find that they are scrambling to ditch their old "grey market" ways, conform to price advertising restrictions, and become fully authorized dealers for the things they sell. The folks at LeisurePro are VERY smart business people. They want desperately to "come in out of the cold" with regard to the authorized dealer standing.

Phil Ellis

 

[redacted]

They are feeling pressure from online authorized dealers all over the country. I think you will find that they are scrambling to ditch their old "grey market" ways, conform to price advertising restrictions, and become fully authorized dealers for the things they sell. The folks at LeisurePro are VERY smart business people. They want desperately to "come in out of the cold" with regard to the authorized dealer standing.

Their "grey market" goods should be costing them a premium that large volume authorized dealers are not paying. I'm sure they would just as soon not be paying some intermediary his 10% to acquire wholesale merchandise.

I did see a used "counterfit" Scubapro BCD on ebay 6 or so years ago (not a leisurepro seller). I recognized something was wrong as it was missing the right shoulder pull dump. When I inquired, the offer was withdrawn. The story I heard was that the manufacturer that Scubapro employed to make their BCD continued to run the line a while after the Scubapro order was filled.

 

[Kamchatka]

I have asked many people this question, if you were taking sky diving lessons would you buy a parachute online and usually they say no.

I bought my Para Commander Mk. II mail order (before Al Dork invented the internet) and saved beaucoup $.

 

[PhilEllis]

Their "grey market" goods should be costing them a premium that large volume authorized dealers are not paying. I'm sure they would just as soon not be paying some intermediary his 10% to acquire wholesale merchandise.

I did see a used "counterfit" Scubapro BCD on ebay 6 or so years ago (not a leisurepro seller). I recognized something was wrong as it was missing the right shoulder pull dump. When I inquired, the offer was withdrawn. The story I heard was that the manufacturer that Scubapro employed to make their BCD continued to run the line a while after the Scubapro order was filled.

I had heard that same thing. I think the company was called sonoform, or something like that. They also had an issue with the original dive rite transpac, which eventually become the scuba pro x=tec bc. But to my knowledge, no legitimate retailer was involved with that.

Phil Ellis

 

[Cacia]

Trust me, had there ACTUALLY been a case where LeisurePro (or any other seller) counteriftted a ScubaPro jacket, you would have heard about it on many official sources.

As if LP would even NEED to financially, just not logical

 

[oly5050user]

just as a personal experience I had a customer come in a few years ago with what was supposed to be a aqualung micra.In for its annual.He told me he purchased it at Lp.He also had a sherwood bc that the elbow on the inflator broke off completely, also purchased at LP.
Well during the annual service on the regulator a pin that holds the demand lever in place was not stainless and was rusted/rotted thru -ready to break in two..The bc elbow was a thin gauge plastic and I took the same model off the wall to compare and held them side by side.The LP one was noticeably thinner and different.All I could guess is that the parts and possibly the entire product were knockoffs.I did hear about the Scubapro bcd incidents also and was told that yes the company that made the product for scubapro sold the bcd to LP with the scubapro tag but had different hardware(hard plastics and such) on it that scubapro uses.