Online Sales - The importance of buying from local businesses

[dkatchalov]

Craig, in case the other comments in this thread are not clear, let me make my point.

My LDS have treated me as a bit of a noob cash cow when I first started. They sold me a bunch of over-priced gear I no longer use (split fins come to mind) and have tried to sell me something (be it equipment or yet another course) every single time I came into the store. This constant selling quickly became irritating and I avoided going into the store unless absolutely necessary. You do the math... their attitude drove me away hence there is a much lower chance I will spend my hard earned moolah in their shop.

What really sealed the deal for me was their attitude when I mentioned to them I bought gear online. I bought all my major gear (bp/w, reg, computer, new fins, etc) from LeisurePro and ScubaToys. Why? Because here in Australia, our LDSs charge double of what I can pay online. When I told my LDS I bought my bp/w and regs online, they treated me like I have just committed a crime. This was followed up by comments such as "I never buy online because you don't know what you are getting". This ignorance, combined with the constant selling, has completely driven me away from my LDS.

As a result, I get my fills at another LDS and will do my training with yet another LDS who do not try to sell me everything they have on the floor every single time I come in. The original LDS has lost my business and respect for their neverending selling and ignorant (and rude) comments and attitude about purchasing online.

So, if you, Craig, treat you customers the same way as my LDS treated me, you will lose their business, respect and that precious thing called "word of mouth" advertising.

 

[PhilEllis]

do any of you have the balls to put your life savings on the line to go into business for yourself? It is so easy to be critical when you don't know what goes on in the day to day running of a business.

I do.

Phil Ellis

 

[Couv]

Hmmm, on my way down to Crystal River, should I stop at Phil's or Craig's? They are both just a little out of my way, but, wait a minute, I can order what I need from Phil and not even have to divert. What a concept! Brick and mortar AND shop on line.

If I were a betting man, I would bet Phil's testicles are safer than Craig's.

 

[redacted]

Hmmm, on my way down to Crystal River, should I stop at Phil's or Craig's? They are both just a little out of my way, but, wait a minute, I can order what I need from Phil and not even have to divert. What a concept! Brick and mortar AND shop on line.

If I were a betting man, I would bet Phil's testicles are safer than Craig's.

And you can research them on this board. Phil has a strong reputation for unbeatable prices and great service. He has even tried to help other shops evolve into healthy, sustainable scuba retailers.

 

[MikeFerrara]

My purpoose in writing the article however, was to let everyone know that if possilbe find a dive shop you like in your area and support it. There are many things behind the scenes that the public in general is not aware of

There sure are things going on behind the scenes and knowing what they are is one of the things that keeps me from spending money in dive shops.

but as I said can lp or st give you air fills, classes, equipment repair, trips and other things a brick and mortar shop can offer?

Dive shops don't "give" classes, repair or classes. Most dive shop centered training is demonstrably lousy and , all of the above is often used as a loss leader so you pay for it with each equipment purchase...something the online retailors DON't force upon you.

Finally, one last question to all that said "here we go again" in response to my article, do any of you have the balls to put your life savings on the line to go into business for yourself? It is so easy to be critical when you don't know what goes on in the day to day running of a business.

I owned a dive shop for several years that I started from scratch. When I had enough of the "beyond the pale" BS of the manufacturers and the agencies, I locked the door, loaded a truck and moved on down the road.

But... I'm still in business for myself so yes, I have the balls.

 

[DiverBizz]

I support my LDS but if I can purchase something of equal value and quality for twice as much from the shop compared to online...I am on the computer. But I also know that I should not expect the LDS to help me set everything up.

 

[Cacia]

do any of you have the balls to put your life savings on the line to go into business for yourself?

definitely not.

It's largely a crapshoot. And that is why there are just not that many really savvy dive shop owners and why some of the manufacturers prey on them. I feel badly for the ones I see come in with big altruistic dreams, their life savings, big high interest business loans, and watch all the stress of trying to make it work....that just does not mean that I will choose to subsidize that. (over dreams of my own)

A guy like Phil Ellis has seen the big picture and can probably play financial ball, because he is not in denial and combined with shooting straight, brings something to the table for the customer.

 

[PhilEllis]

Have you ever been told that you get what you pay for? Most of us have, yet some people seem to prefer buying from online retailers rather than to buy from someone local. We all love our conveniences and in some respects if you do not have time, or just do not like crowded malls then online shopping is quick and convenient. If you shop online because you think you always get a better price then think again. What seems to be a good deal sometimes is not. In business there are reasons why some items can be sold cheaper than others for example, overstocks, discontinued items and blemished merchandise. If you are looking for bargins and you can save money by buying last years model so to speak then great you have saved yourself some money but bottom line, if there is a problem and you bought the merchandise locally, you have a brick and mortar building to go to get immediate help. Local retailers represent the manufacturers they buy from and meet all the requirments set by the manufacturer for selling a given product line. The retailer has been trained by the manufacturer and has that company backing them. Most online retailers however, get their merchandise from stores going out of business, from the grey market and yes in some cases knockoffs from China. In any case this type of merchandise has no warranty because they are not factory authorized to sell that particular brand and a local retailer is not usually willing to do anything for you because of a liability issue. All you can do at that point is send the merchandise back to where you bought it, at your expense, and wait for a long time to get results. Is this type of aggravation worth any savings? In the scuba industry, we think of certain types of gear as life support equipment like regulators for example. I have asked many people this question, if you were taking sky diving lessons would you buy a parachute online and usually they say no. I then ask why, and their answer usuall is because it is life support. Don't trust your life to something if you do not know for sure where it came from. In closing all I can say is, we all have been conditioned to look at only a price tag instead of looking outside the box at what we really get for the money. Buying anything is based strickly on emotional responses not on logic. Local business are the life blood of the community. They are the ones who have the investment in expensive equipment to do air fills, the online retailers do not. The local retailer has the expertise for education in the sport, the online retailer does not. The local retailer has expensive liability insurance which is required in order to do business, and the online retailer does not. We need to do what we can to keep the local dollars local instead of sending money off to other cities that are not concerned about your local economy. If local businesses are not supported then they will go away and that hurts everyone. Local businesses can not survive on air fills alone. When businesses go under then jobs are lost.

Hi Craig. Welcome to ScubaBoard. I think you will find this board a great source of information, a good measure of how scuba consumers think, and you may find that your participation here improves your scuba business.

This is a tough crowd to try that "sky is falling" defense of the local scuba store. This crowd is a notch above the average beginner scuba diver that walks into your store without any advance research. These people actually know the truth about MOST online scuba stores. Most of us are fully authorized dealers for everything that we sell....even the stuff from the suppliers that take your money while claiming that they "don't support online sales". Most of us have a fully equipped, local scuba store doing training, dive travel, equipment repair, air and nitrox sales, and yes, equipment sales. Most of us are a little different....we have a business model that doesn't require the 50% to 65% that you work from. Most of us sell in higher volumes, resulting in "best pricing" from our suppliers.

We invite you to join in on the discussions here on ScubaBoard. You can probably contribute a lot. We would welcome your contribution. If you have any questions about how the online business REALLY works, give me a call. I love talking business with other store owners. Thanks and enjoy.

Phil Ellis

 

[Carribeandiver]

Care to back this statement up with facts, personal experiences, etc?

I have heard of several instances where LP sold used equipment and tried to pass it off as new. Hearsay, I know,, I know,,, but as a fact and personal experience, I made one purchase from LP and lo and behold, yep it was clearly used gear which was sold as new. After a couple of phone calls to fix this, I threw it away rather than hassle with them.
Additionally, it has been reported and corroborated, that LP had a company manufacture BCDs and sew ScubaPro labels on them. Yes, I know, I know, hearsay again. Believe what you will but the source seemed very reliable to me.
They sell several product lines that do not allow online sales. Now, how is it they can not only sell these product lines via online sales, but they openly advertise them in their online catalog? Either manufacturers grant them special privileges or they sell products obtained through sources other than the manufacturer.
My personal experience aside, there are too many reports, allegations and instances to ignore. I could be wrong but I am using the where there is smoke there is fire theory.
This is answering your direct question, it is not an invitation for debate. Feel free to support them if you wish, I merely made a statement based on my personal experiences and the many instances reported through other means.

CRAIG: Nice website, if I am ever in Ocala, I am stopping by.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I have heard of several instances where LP sold used equipment and tried to pass it off as new. Hearsay, I know,, I know,,, but as a fact and personal experience, I made one purchase from LP and lo and behold, yep it was clearly used gear which was sold as new. After a couple of phone calls to fix this, I threw it away rather than hassle with them.
Additionally, it has been reported and corroborated, that LP had a company manufacture BCDs and sew ScubaPro labels on them. Yes, I know, I know, hearsay again. Believe what you will but the source seemed very reliable to me.
They sell several product lines that do not allow online sales. Now, how is it they can not only sell these product lines via online sales, but they openly advertise them in their online catalog? Either manufacturers grant them special privileges or they sell products obtained through sources other than the manufacturer.
My personal experience aside, there are too many reports, allegations and instances to ignore. I could be wrong but I am using the where there is smoke there is fire theory.
This is answering your direct question, it is not an invitation for debate. Feel free to support them if you wish, I merely made a statement based on my personal experiences and the many instances reported through other means.

CRAIG: Nice website, if I am ever in Ocala, I am stopping by.

That may apply to LP, but what about Scuba Toys, Dive Sports, TDL, Wreck Diver Supply, Divers Supply, Northeast Scuba, Scuba.com, Divers Discount Florida, Dive Rite Express .... and on and on. You're painting with an AWEFULLY broad brush. Those of us that spend alot of money online know what we're doing and can also recognize BS when we see it.