Ongoing discussion of Ratio Deco

[amascuba]

If ratio deco was consistently conservative or consistently liberal I could see your point.
But it has a tendancy swing from one end of things to the other.
Also I am not saying it is not a usefull tool.
Just not the primary planing tool.

Milo

Ratio Deco is consistant in that it's easily predictable and follows a linear progression.

The other algorithms are not as consistant or easily predictable unless you have an application or tables that you can use to guide you to the answer that you seek.

That's how I determine that Ratio Deco is more consistant than the other applications.

 

[rjack321]

So decoplanner is "scientifically validated" but you have to add deep stops? You wouldn't actually dive those profiles as generated?

I know I wouldn't. But I am also not advocating that its a good approximation of human physiology - despite its mathematical acceptance.

I believe the mix of deco theories, while not 100% mathematical nor "validated", provided by DOTF works better. Deep stops and other pieces are inherently part of DOTF.

How can a piece of software which ignores these fundemental elements of clean deco be labeled accurate?

 

[Charlie99]

So decoplanner is "scientifically validated" but you have to add deep stops? You wouldn't actually dive those profiles as generated?

I know I wouldn't. But I am also not advocating that its a good approximation of human physiology - despite its mathematical acceptance.

This is what the DIR gurus at GUE says about Decoplanner:

Thousands of copies of DecoPlanner are used by divers around the world in both recreational and aggressive technical diving situations, including world record cave diving explorations in the Woodville Karst Plain and deep-sea documentation of the Britannic shipwreck. DecoPlanner has been used to calculate a series of progressively more aggressive long and deep dives.

It's what the big boys are using. It's gotta be great! Right?

Charlie Allen

p.s. The above quote from the GUE website has been what they have said about Decoplanner even back when it didn't have any VPM and it was a pure dissolved gas model with just a gradient factor hack.

p.p.s Another indication that GUE treats decoplanner (actually, the dissolved gas portion of it!) as the reference standard is the requirement in the current training standards:

GUE requires that, when training, GUE instructors follow conservative decompression schedules and evaluate decompression schedules using GUE's DecoPlanner as a standard. Decompression times during such training shall approximate the time indicated by DecoPlanner when using a gradient of 30/85.

 

[FishTaco]

So decoplanner is "scientifically validated" but you have to add deep stops? You wouldn't actually dive those profiles as generated?

Deep stops aren't unique to Ratio Deco, every GUE trained diver applies deep stops when required.

I believe the mix of deco theories, while not 100% mathematical nor "validated", provided by DOTF works better. Deep stops and other pieces are inherently part of DOTF.

We also apply deepstops, oxygen window, S-curves and dissolved gas theory during our deco.

How can a piece of software which ignores these fundemental elements of clean deco be labeled accurate?

We use the software to generate a total time on a particular gas, and then apply the various theories to optimise a decompression strategy.
How exactly does DOTF work better?

Sincerly,
Chris

 

[KMD]

We use the software to generate a total time on a particular gas, and then apply the various theories to optimise a decompression strategy.
How exactly does DOTF work better?

You could say that DOTF uses some basic rules to generate a total time on a particular gas and then applies various theories to optimise a decompression strategy.

I dont think its a matter of one being "better" than any other. If for a certain dive, method A, method B, method C all arrive at roughly the same answer then what really is the arguement about?

Lets face it no matter what model/program one uses, you are basically guinea pigs. After the dive you come out of the water and how do you feel? Bent? kinda icky? good? After enough divers come out feeling good, then the model/program gets accepted by the diving population.

If we don't even know what causes DCS then how in the world can we definitively say which model is "THE ONE"?

Note that I do not consider DOTF a theory or model. To me is more of a recognition and codifying of patterns for a certain range of dives. If you take it to extreems it is going to break. But perhaps for the majority of dives the average tech diver (if there is such an animal) is doing it might be perfectly adequate.

How many divers out there besides Heather have done 3 hour decos? 6 hour decos? 12 hour decos?

 

[grazie42]

Noone has really answered the criticism that DOTF is inconsistent in its "conservatism-settings" thru-out the same range ie T1 or T2 (or maybe I missed it). Do you agree but don´t care (perhaps because you modify the "output" in the less conservative parts of the range) or disagree?

 

[rjack321]

Deep stops aren't unique to Ratio Deco, every GUE trained diver applies deep stops when required.


We also apply deepstops, oxygen window, S-curves and dissolved gas theory during our deco.

We use the software to generate a total time on a particular gas, and then apply the various theories to optimise a decompression strategy.
How exactly does DOTF work better?

I knew all that, I was just being argumentative

IMO not needing the laptop on the dive to come up with similar times is an advantage. As long as I'm within my MOD and some basic time limits I can come up with a new or modified schedule regardless of how some new site works out in reality.

What's the advantage of decoplanner for you?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Deep stops aren't unique to Ratio Deco, every GUE trained diver applies deep stops when required.

What dive would not require deepstops?

Tobin

 

[ScubaMilo]

What dive would not require deepstops?

Tobin

err... I guess rec. dives in the 50ft or shallower range.

Since min. deco stops would be 30, 20, 10 don't really see a need for deep stops on these dives.

Or

Deco dives in the 100 ft or shallower ranges since the bottle switch is at first deep stop range.(no deep stop is required.)

All this will be covered when you take tech1.

Milo

 

[FishTaco]

What dive would not require deepstops?

Tobin

Are deep stops required when monkey diving?
Just curious...

Chris