On my last dive to 400 Ft...

[wb416]

Point taken...I'll go get the powder eyebrow

Don't be stingy... and bring enough for the rest of us too!! :14:

 

[Wayward Son]

So you dove to 400 feet. We don't care about that. What we want to know is: Did you wear your mask on your forehead?

 

[Solitude Diver]

Don't be stingy... and bring enough for the rest of us too!! :14:

Will do.....but everyone needs to apply their own.

PS (How am I doing on the smileys?)

 

[Solitude Diver]

So you dove to 400 feet. We don't care about that. What we want to know is: Did you wear your mask on your forehead?

LOL....Too funny...that MOF vs. NMOF has taken a life of its own. :lol2:

 

[wb416]

Will do.....but everyone needs to apply their own.

PS (How am I doing on the smileys?)

:rofl:

Awesome Dude!! Rock on!! :bang:

 

[MikeFerrara]

It appears that you believe the Marine Park authorities which regulate diving in Cozumel are inept and can't manage their own affairs. Apparently, they are too stupid to understand that Devil's Throat is a cave and should not be entered except by cave divers. And all the dive shops are just money-grubbing enterprises only interested in increasing their wealth and operate without a thought to the safety of the divers who charter their boats.

You feel this need to control other people to the extent that you feel compelled to bolt signs to the coral reef of Punta Sur in violation of their marine park rules? And that's because they are not competent to manage their own affairs?

It's very hard to take you guys seriously at times.

first. No one is trying to control you...just trying to give you a little information so that you can control yourself in an informed manor.

The signs that GDI refered to are posted at the entrances to many caves to inform all the folks who think it looks safe enough to enter without the right equipment or training of all the others who thought the same thing and didn't survive.

I'm certain the marine park athourities can indeed manage their own affairs. However, when it comes to diving, I'll stick to trusting my own training and experience. You, of course are free to follow some marine park authority in the absence of training and experience if you choose.

Maybe you'd like th bring the diving credentials of the folks who run the park authority into the discussion so we can compare apples to apples. I haven't been there but I know Bob...you know the guy who keeps poping in to call me names:10: The dive shops? Some one? Either way, I read where Bob doesn't recall leaving the cavern zone on the dive. hmmm...cavern?...a cavern below 130 ft? Remeber all the training standards I mentioned? It's beyond the recommended limits for trained cavern divers. But of course you think every one is just trying to control you. LOL and you can do what you want because you're not one of those. LOL again.

 

[wb416]

..snip..

Maybe you'd like th bring the diving credentials of the folks who run the park authority into the discussion so we can compare apples to apples. I haven't been there but I know Bob...you know the guy who keeps poping in to call me names:10: The dive shops? Some one? Either way, I read where Bob doesn't recall leaving the cavern zone on the dive. hmmm...cavern?...a cavern below 130 ft? Remeber all the training standards I mentioned? It's beyond the recommended limits for trained cavern divers. But of course you think every one is just trying to control you. LOL and you can do what you want because you're not one of those. LOL again.

Mike,
I recall most of the swim throughs of Devil's throat were somewhere in the range of 90 to 110 feet or so.

hope that helps...

names?? ...oh... you can bite me...

bob

 

[pt40fathoms]

Being both an Instructor and a Commercial Dive Business Owner makes me well aware of what the differences are. In some areas of the country the seperation of the three is clear. In other areas they all kind of blend together. let me give you a profile of a diver and you tell me where he falls... this will prove my point.

Let's call him Ed (he's a friend of mine and that's not his real name)

*Ed has been diving for about 25 years.
*In the early 80's Ed received an Open Water C-Card from NASDS
A friend of his was a commercial diver and the company he worked for needed tenders, so they hired Ed and gave him some on the job training as a tender.
*Ed likes wreck diving and has dove for more than 15 years to wrecks in excess of 180ft. He never received any formal training in doing this. He started diving doubles on his own long ago.
*In 2001 (after 20+ years of diving) he took a Nitrox course through SSI because he wanted to easily be able to get his tanks filled with Nitrox.
*Ed has logged more than 3000 dives, but he stopped writing them in his logbook at around his 400th dive (so there is no record of his experience) He still carries only his original NASDS card and an SSI Nitrox card.
*Ed has dove caves in Florida and Mexico for the last 5 years without incident and has no formal cave training.
*Ed also has no formal Rescue Training or any other advanced training.
*Ed has worked for the past 2 years part-time for me cleaning boat bottoms and doing light salvage work in my commercial business. Prior to this I required him to read our Safety and Procedural Training Manual.

What type of Diver is Ed? Is he Recreational, Technical or Commercial? Do you consider him experienced enough to be all three? Do you still think he needs more training? My point is that most of the diving community (especially those diving 5+ years) can tell stories such as these. Most of them progress just fine without additional formal training from a money making agency. Just some food for thought... but I really want to know what type of diver you think he is... and how clear the lines really are in the overall world of diving?

I don't think "Ed" is ready to don a hat and drill a hole with a pneumatic drill at 140 fsw for 2 hours, now is he.

Ed, may have OC diving experience in some areas that recreational divers don't normally dive in, but Ed is not a commercial diver, nor is he a technical diver. He's an experienced Recreational Diver who is taking some risks he shouldn't be taking, who should be furthering his training that will keep him from getting himself killed. It’s nice to see that Ed got his Nitrox cert, now how about having a little talk with Ed and moving in the direction of some Cave and Tech certs as well. As for being paid to do work under water, as far as I'm aware, if he is not in possession of at least an Open Circuit Scuba commercial ticket he is breaking the law. At least in most parts of North America, and if you are paying him to do work without that ticket, you too may be breaking the law.

Think of it this way if you would.

In the early years of flying, all on needed in order to “get a license” to operate a heavier than air flying machine, was an endorsement by an already qualified pilot. (like one of the Wright Brothers) Now it’s a little hard to actually pinpoint exactly where and when formal training for the general public was introduced into flying, but the military was the first to train pilots in a formal manner. Which is why most commercial airline pilots in the early years were military pilots first. But with the growth of General Aviation, somewhere along the line a set standard of training was developed, now the actual date, location, and who started this is a subject of debate, but the fact that it did happen is all that matters. Today we see a very structured and controlled method of training new pilots, and for a newly minted pilot to jump into the cockpit of a twin engine high performance aircraft without training is unthinkable, and dangerous. Sure s/he may make several trips without any incident, but no one would be silly enough to say that it proves they need no training and should continue on with what they are doing.

Diving is growing and evolving. How divers were trained 20 or 30 years ago, and how they got to do what they did, is not how it is done today for good reason. We are seeing today a blending of old and new in the divers we meet. But to justify keeping the old ways of learning new skills in diving is pure folly and will be trumpeted less and less as the years go on. It’s nice to look back to the nostalgia and smile at how the pioneers bravely risked blazing new paths, but it’s foolish to want to retrace their actions and methods with all we have learned.