On my last dive to 400 Ft...

[JeffG]

I think there is quite a difference in going into a swimthrough without planning for it and planning an entire dive including gas planning and deco stops with the express purpose of going into a swimthrough.

You didn't plan it. Someone else did that for you. For you, its a trust me dive. So the two scenarios are very similar.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Being scared and scaring people who are doing recreational dives bothers me.

Bothers you? I spent too much time teaching only to have too many students come back from places like that telling me stories that just about made me crap my pants to care much whether you are bothered or not.

 

[TheRedHead]

You didn't plan it. Someone else did that for you. For you, its a trust me dive. So the two scenarios are very similar.

You don't know what you're talking about. We requested this dive and I knew exactly what to expect. In fact, I postponed the dive for a day because I was jetlagged the day we had originally scheduled to do this dive. You don't know anything about who I dive with and the way I dive and I don't know anything about you. We fully discussed this dive including all the stops, length and depth, and dove that plan.

Unlike you, I don't assume anything about your diving. But you assume a lot.

 

[daniel f aleman]

"Most of the small percentage of accidents involving experienced cave divers have occurring during deep cave dives."

--Sheck Exley
Cave Diving: A Blueprint for Survival
http://www.stationr.org/caving/exley.htm


He'd be 56 years-old...

 

[Soggy]

Do you have overhead training of any sort?

yes / no

You don't know what you're talking about. We requested this dive and I knew exactly what to expect. In fact, I postponed the dive for a day because I was jetlagged the day we had originally scheduled to do this dive. You don't know anything about who I dive with and the way I dive and I don't know anything about you. We fully discussed this dive including all the stops, length and depth, and dove that plan.

Unlike you, I don't assume anything about your diving. But you assume a lot.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have done Devils Throat a number of times, and this is a reach. We're talking about Cozumel here, not the Andrea Doria.

Have you seen many of the clear warm inviting springs that are nothing like the andrea doria that have killed lots of divers? I can imagin them saying the very same thing you are.

The Throat is a swim through. You can go through without a flashlight; lots of people do. Coz is all DM led drift diving.

the DM in the cave gear (of some sort) makes all the difference right?

The operators who will take divers to the Throat will do so only if the divers have the ability for deeper diving.

Define "the ability for deeper diving please.

Dropping a line through Punta Sur is against the law. Divers need to know the dive operators are safe, and the operators need to be aware of the divers abilities. Fortunately, there are a number of really great dive operators in Coz. Very small dive groups, large steel tanks, mandatory computers. I've seen any number of shops in Florida who I wouldn't do a dive like this with under any circumstances!

Mandatory computers? That lets me out. I don't use one. I'll take your wordfor it about the oporators. I usually dive on my own.

Divers have the responsibilty to evaluate different situations and decide what they feel comfortable with, as do the dive operators. You can't have hard and fast rules that cover all divers in all situations. And there will always be people who make foolish decisions in any endeavor, whether it's diving, driving, or crossing the street. If this were a true overhead environment, then it would be different, but Devil's Throat/Punta Sur is not that challenging a dive. The currents are the biggest potential challenge, not the swim throughs.

I keep hearing that it's not a true overhead environment but every description that I read tells me that it is.

 

[TheRedHead]

Daniel, why don't you let everyone know just how deep Exley dived on that fateful dive? I have the book...

 

[JeffG]

Unlike you, I don't assume anything about your diving. But you assume a lot.

Why do you think I was asking you questions. I didn't want to assume. Your answers gave me an understanding of your understanding.

 

[TheRedHead]

Do you have overhead training of any sort?

This is a recreational dive! This is a pointless argument because it's impossible to discuss the potential problems associated with this dive with anyone who is not familiar with it.

If you all want to make this into a technical dive in your minds, then go right ahead. Lay in a big supply of antacids and moan and groan about how other people dive...

 

[MikeFerrara]

You don't know what you're talking about. We requested this dive and I knew exactly what to expect. In fact, I postponed the dive for a day because I was jetlagged the day we had originally scheduled to do this dive. You don't know anything about who I dive with and the way I dive and I don't know anything about you. We fully discussed this dive including all the stops, length and depth, and dove that plan.

Unlike you, I don't assume anything about your diving. But you assume a lot.

We saw your guide and the divers he was leading in to the cave with what lookes like silt clouds bellowing up around them in the slide show. We may know more than you think.

BTW, what model did you use planning your decompression and why did you chose it? Do you have any training (formal or informal) in staged decompression or was that a DM lead thing too?