? on back inflation

[FF-EMT Diver]

Ok, I stand corrected yes Blackwood and Saspotato ya'll are right, I quess it shows my newness not to think of everything when writing it down,But on ascent with a little finning you will gain air volume in your bc and your tank although I realize it would be wise to use this air for another breath, Now if it came out that my first choice would be to bolt to the top that is not right, Of course I would signal partner/share air and ascend normally, I was trying to get a vibe on WEIGHT PLACEMENT to correct the forward pushing of a the BC.

 

[Blackwood]

Don't worry, we've all been there (new).

You are correct. It is unlikely you'll find yourself in a situation where the ONLY way to ascend is to dump weight or inflate.

Regarding weight placement, many people have noted that back inflate BCs have that tendency when overinflated. Try only putting in enough air to float you, and you should sit nice and upright. If not, try laying back.

 

[Sideband]

Everyone that I have seen having the "pushing you forward" problem was trying to float on the surface with their arm-pits out of the water. Put in enough air to keep you on the surface without finning and where the water comes to your chin.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Put in enough air to keep you on the surface without finning and where the water comes to your chin.

This is where many beginning divers (0-24 logged dives) are seriously uncomfortable, especially when the water is not flat and glassy. To me, one of the biggest problems of SB is the so called experienced divers who don't know anything about teaching, much less teaching diving, continually pushing beginning divers into gear not proper for the individual's learning curve.

I have witnessed more than a handful of referral divers from quarry land who go wide eyed and panicky their first time on the ocean surface with a little wind chop (~50%). If these quarry lds's would stop selling noob's back inflate rigs before they are even certified there would be a quicker learning curve for many of them, especially the ones not that comfortable in water deeper than they can stand.

From my perspective as a resort dive instructor; a much, much higher percentage of noob's in back inflate are having difficulty in their early dives than noob's in jacket BC's. I am not saying one can't learn in back inflate; I'm saying not all should. It's kind of like driving; some people would learn just fine starting in a Ferrari or a dump truck, but way more people should start with a compact and work up to the supercar or dump truck.

I'm not saying FF/Emt has the wrong gear; that would require more than cyberdiving together. I am saying that a lot of you back inflate fans seem to think everyone will be better off learning in back inflate, and that is just plain silly!

 

[pasley]

Hey Pasley, point me in the right direction maybe I overlooked it but I have not seen any crotch straps, Where might I get one?

Best thing is of course to ensure the back inflate has minimial air in it. You want to float with your chin out of the water and your shoulders in the water.

Sorry, bad news. After looking at the specs for your particular BC (I expected better or Cressci) it does not have a crotch strap and would be difficult to put one on this particular configuration. This comes under the category of "there ought to be a law". When it comes to back inflate, they offer IMHO some definite advantages, but they really need a crotch strap.

As the design is what it is, you have three choices.
1. The easiest solution is to start drinking beer, lots of it and stop all exercise including SCUBA briefly.:shelli: This will help you to quickly build a suitable body mass (aka beer belly) under which you can fasten the belly strap and keep the rig in place. Continue the beer regimen until you can easily set your bottle (or can) on top while standing with no spillage, or

2. Contact Cressci and tell them about the issue and that many in the dive community who are using back inflate swear by crotch straps as the best solution (after reducing the air in the BC to the minimum to hold you on the surface with your chin out of the water) and them ask them for their remedy or

3. Get with you local divers and figure out how you can add a crotch strap. You may be able to get under all that material and find a place to install a crotch strap. All you need is some 2 inch webbing (without resin) or 1 inch webbing (I prefer 2 inch). A place to connect it on the back and then on the front.

Here are some sites that sell straps that you may be able to add (you will have to look over your rig to decide if you can).

https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?category=harness_acc

SCUBA Diving Equipment for Technical, Wreck and Cave Diving: Dive Rite, Inc - Product Catalog - Crotch Strap 2-Inch
Divers Supply - Discount Scuba Gear - Serious About Your Fun, and Your Savings!
Innovative Pin Mount with Ring at Divers Direct - Scuba gear & equipment online dive catalog!

Many divers here in SoCal are moving to the backplate wing combination. When I dumped my jacket style BC with all its padding and bulky material that only adds drag in the water I was also able to shed some lead because of the additional buoyancy of the old jacket BC.

Good luck and let us know which option you choose and how it turns out.

 

[pasley]

This is where many beginning divers (0-24 logged dives) are seriously uncomfortable, especially when the water is not flat and glassy. ...I'm not saying FF/Emt has the wrong gear; that would require more than cyberdiving together. I am saying that a lot of you back inflate fans seem to think everyone will be better off learning in back inflate, and that is just plain silly!

Some very good points. A back inflate is not the right choice for everyone. I moved from a jacket BC to a backplate and wing (thank you Tobin at DSS) and could not be happier. I recommend it to most divers who are comfortable in the water. I find it easy to control and to trim out and it is more streamlined.

That said, I was recently certified by Handicapped SCUBA Association (HSA) as a Dive Buddy. During that exhaustive training I learned that a back inflate is the wrong choice for some divers. While doing pool and ocean work with my ankles tied together (Bondage Certification ) to simulate a parapaligic diver we struggled (everyone of us had backplates and wings) to control the back inflate without legs to help us. We also found doing rescue of a tired or injured diver while simulating being a parapaligic, we again had to fight the back inflate while trying to tow in the injured/tired diver. However, when not simulating a parapaligic or quadriplegic diver, I still prefer my DSS backplate and wing.

 

[Blackwood]

Some very good points. A back inflate is not the right choice for everyone. I moved from a jacket BC to a backplate and wing (thank you Tobin at DSS) and could not be happier. I recommend it to most divers who are comfortable in the water. I find it easy to control and to trim out and it is more streamlined.

That said, I was recently certified by Handicapped SCUBA Association (HSA) as a Dive Buddy. During that exhaustive training I learned that a back inflate is the wrong choice for some divers. While doing pool and ocean work with my ankles tied together (Bondage Certification ) to simulate a parapaligic diver we struggled (everyone of us had backplates and wings) to control the back inflate without legs to help us. We also found doing rescue of a tired or injured diver while simulating being a parapaligic, we again had to fight the back inflate while trying to tow in the injured/tired diver. However, when not simulating a parapaligic or quadriplegic diver, I still prefer my DSS backplate and wing.

That sounds like a very interesting class.

Out of curiosity, how does you diving or simulating rescue without the use of your legs prepare you to dive with a paraplegic diver?

 

[Merrimorte]

If you are talking about on the surface being pushed forward slightly. Yeah it will do that. With little effort though you can push yourself unto your back and float that way. I do it all the time with my ladyhawk.

Also as for the weight. I only have 2# of it in my back pockets. The bulk of mine is in my dump pockets on the front / sides.

 

[CamG]

Greetings FF/EmtDiver and welcome to SB! We all share your journey in achieving good buoyancy and it is a on going project that changes as we change gear and rigging. I experienced the same issue with my Dive Rite Transpac. What I did first and foremost was to pin point weighting and did checks after most dives till I knew what weight I needed. Then I experimented with placement on my belt, I just believe it is easier to adjust trim with a belt. This is just my preference, the same can be achieved with pockets. No big deal!
The one ace in the hole I was turned onto by my instructor was to put a pair of ankle weights on my tank just above the boot. This 3.3 lbs at the bottom of the tank helped adjust the forward pitch at the surface. It was great!
The crotch strap also helped to stabilize for good position at the surface.
These were the things that helped me the most to adjust my trim. The most important factor is to be in the water as much as you can! Practice, practice and experiment till you find what works for you. Everyone is a little different but it is a sure thing the only way to improve is to dive! I have a friend with over 600 logged dives and he thrives on trying new things and peak performance buoyancy. It is an awesome thing to experiment and keep progressing in your dive knowledge whether just starting out or at hundreds of dives!
I hope this information has helped, PM me if I can be of further assistance. It is great to have you aboard, we all have been where you are and one day you can help others in their journey. Safe diving and enjoy learning do not ever stop! CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[mudhole]

Greetings FF/EmtDiver, A few thoughts from a diver from the 60's. . . If you wear a float around your neck, "you will die". . . an idea that is not new, about any piece of equipment you wear underwater. . . and false. Without a float, you learned to adjust your weights before every dive to adjust your bouyancy for the depth you were going to. Too bouyant at the surface, you swam down to the depth you planned on. It was in the late '60's when the Underwater Society required a floatation device for competition that many experienced divers started wearing them. . . and they were not killers. Early "floats" were all horsecollars, rarely seen today. Their decline was because of the discomfort of the crotch strap. Jacket styles came around in the mid '70's and everyone had to have one. The best fitting jackets are just as comfortable today as they were in the beginning. Poor fitting copies were just as uncomfortable then as today. Back inflate floatation dates from the same time. . . some people found them comfortable, many did not. Many companies dropped them from their catalogues, because of magazines claims they were unsafe "you're gonna die" Backplates without wings, have been around since the '50's as homemades. Any welder can create them easily, They're rugged, and easily shaped into any special need. Look at Cave and wreck divers carrying 3 or 4 tanks.

This short "history" should inflame everyone who bought the newest gadget. . . Each of the choices can be a safe and enjoyable piece of equipment. . . each will be comfortable on a dive, even the old "horse collars" At the surface they each have "issues" I now dive with a single tank, and love the comfort of my jacket. . . I've dove with every combination that has come out since the 60's including doubles and triple tanks. Each has a purpose that it is best suited for.

As a suggestion, to you as an EMT. Be able to dump all your weight, and take off your back inflate, inflate it fully then approach anyone in trouble like a lifeguard with a towable float. I'm an EMT and by planning in advance on how to use each piece of gear, I've answered calls for help, without stumbling around for "something" to go. Panic stressed people will fixate on anything large and floating, and usually leave you to tow.